They want to change the name because it’s too vague and it doesn’t convey its meaning directly enough to the majority of Americans who aren’t obsessed with politics exclusively.

Ya,
I guess a good name for is shut up and pay more.

“I am not going debate this isssue anymore, because it is pointless”
Alvin Winter

Yes it is pointless to debate this issue with you

Change is hard Alvin, but don’t worry, you’ll get used to it.

Your thoughts, William…What say you?

Obama Is Going To Pay For My Gas And Mortgage!!!
http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7... [0:26]

Hmmm…Wonder how that’s working out for Peggy Joseph and her family? Sadly though, she does represent a huge number of people that supported & voted Obama into power!?

Congressman Mike Rogers’ opening statement on Health Care reform…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G44NCvNDLfc&... [3:49]

Change does not equal progress.

If you like this bill, please tell us why it is so good. Who does it cover? How much will you and I pay? Will prescriptions and tests be rationed, if not why?
Why will it take to 2013 to get this started? Will people be denied treatment? How long will it take for people to receive tests and surgery? Will the government tax a person extra if they have unhealthy life style or if they weight more than the average person?

Who does it cover? It covers only a third of the uninsured we currently have including illegal aliens.

How much will you and I pay? About an extra $2,000 to $3,000 more than a family currently pays and much more for their employers. (MORE OVERHEAD MEANS LESS JOBS!)

Will prescriptions and tests be rationed, if not why? Ask people that live in Canada and England.

Why will it take to 2013 to get this started? Because you will find out how bad it is in the first 3 months, and Obama will have no chance in getting re-elected if it starts before the election.

Will people be denied treatment? Ask people that live in Canada and England.

How long will it take for people to receive tests and surgery? Ask people that live in Canada and England.

Will the government tax a person extra if they have unhealthy life style or if they weight more than the average person? Obama has already hinted on doing this.

If this does not work in any other country that currently has a public option, why would anyone think it will work here?

If I ran into Congressman Rogers in person I would tell him to have a heart. It’s not about punishing the rich, it’s about helping the poor. I thought that’s what Americans would do.
“This or nothing” is not the question, it’s meerly a starting point to end up a a fair middle ground between the status quo as it is and the possibility of a system that evolves and adapts to change to always work toward the betterment of the human condition.
I want my tax dollars helping people, I thought that’s what they were there for. I’m not afraid of big government. I thought the Federal Government was created by the people for the people and our officials were elected from among us to represent us and are us! At least that’s how it was originally intended to be, whoever got it twisted needs to step down.
As far as disenrolling individuals from health care I will assume that action is reserved to be leveraged against those who would try to scam or fraud the system.
I Don’t want to copy Canada or England or anyone elsees system. We are the wealthiest nation on earth we are supposed to be an example of what can be achieved.
The crushing wieght of the economy is squishing the middle class due to corporations and insurance companies hoarding all the money leaving less and less for everyone else to spread around, not the government making suggestions for ways for people to conserve energy or live healthier with the right incentives. The whole arguement of people who say “boy if you think it’s bad now wait till you see how bad it could be way later if you ever try to change anything!” is insane.
I’m not saying you can’t do anything you want, it’s your free choice, but I am saying if you choose to do things that are a detriment to the rest of the population, then yes you should have to pay it foward.
Obama isn’t alone in his thinking, He’s open minded and represents the cumulative ideas of the majority. And no He’s not gonna pay for our gas and mortgages… although if the banks don’t pay back that bail out loan I do feel like they are getting paid twice for our mortgages. But fixing healthcare is key to a safer economy and better prices on everything across the board.
Alvin I’ve got answers to all of your questions written down and will post them later, as I am tired of typing.
Pnut, I couldnt get the link about peggy and joseph to open so I’m not sure what that’s about sory, but Im sure “it is not so big a problem that it can’t be solved otherwise it is not a problem it is a reality and must be accepted” quote from som1 else? i dunno who

The thing I like is that the people against the so called “public option” think that without it they don’t pay anything. Sure, we don’t pay for well patient visits, we get to pay for the emergency care and extreme illness care. Things that cost us 5 to 7 times more than well patient care.

"I couldnt get the link about peggy and joseph to open so I’m not sure what that’s about sorry, but Im sure “it is not so big a problem that it can’t be solved otherwise it is not a problem it is a reality and must be accepted”

Sorry, my bad! Here it is again…

Obama Is Going To Pay For My Gas And Mortgage!!!
Hmmm…Wonder how that’s working out for Peggy Joseph and her family? Sadly though, she does represent a huge number of people that supported & voted Obama into power!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI [0:26]

It’s not about having a heart, it is about doing the best for the greatest good. The problem is that everyone thinks the Public Option is for the greater good. If those people took the time and thought about the final result, they would know it does not help anyone but the government. We go go in circles all day and night, with the ignorant saying the same thing over and over without questioning what this may lead to. The Insurance companies only make about a 2-3% profit. That is not alot. They charge people on the amount of risk using a formula. They stock holders make a profit or lose depending on that formula. The government will make all companies take all people regardless of health and limit the amount they pay. This will kill every Insurance Company which will make everyone go with the public option.

Thanks to Joe Lieberman – the Public Option is DEAD!

No need to debate any further.

The only thing that’s workin out for Peggy Joseph and her family so far or the only effects of Obama’s policies that she’s actually feeling thus far, is the fact that she’s not currently in the middle of a 1920s calliber depression thanks to the stimulus package slowly nursing the economy back to health. But as far as her news interview I think it’s beautiful that she was caught on camera overjoyed and excited with hope. Hope that Obama is going to help her to help herself, Hope that a better day is coming, and assurance that she will always be able to find a way to pay her mortgage or be able to afford to put gas in her car. I feel that’s what she meant. Although I do see how Republicans could misconstrue and hate that clip. Just like Congressman Mike Rogers somehow thinks it is acceptable to only punish 15% of American wemon and children with no health care, “as long as it’s only 15%,.. and they’re poor and can’t do anything about it.”

William,
You seem to be on this website alot. Do you work? I am not trying to attack you, but if you do not – why? Has the stimulus helped you find a job, if you did not have one? Did the lack of jobs directly effect you, or do you work in a job where this does not affect you?
$850 Billion and only 300,000 jobs to show for it, but really that number can not be confirmed. Thats over 250k per job. Money well spent!!!!!

I forgot to mention those jobs are not sustainable!!!!

I am on this web site at night and when it rains I am a simple roofer, not a politician, but think that you do not have to be a rocket scientist to realize that health care reform is a moral imperative. Unless it is raining I haven’t had a day off in 10 years. (weekends don’t exist to roofers! hahaha). But regardless i work to support my family, often on very high, very steep very deadly slate roofs daily,.. which is why health care is important to me I have seen many of my friends get hurt and insurance not cover them,,, try telling an insurance company my profession and ask them what your premium would be? haha But to answer your question no I haven’t directly accepted any stimulus money but have noticed I have more jobs to choose from when the economy is up.

So, you think the economy is up. Tell that to the 7.5 million that are out of work.

you do not have to be a rocket scientist to realize that health care reform is a moral imperative. Do you work for the greater good? I suppose you will work for free to pay for someone elses healthcare? Why don’t you and everyone else that agrees with you start paying for people out of you pocket directly. If you think it is a moral thing, than you should provide healthcare for everyone.
I never said we should help those that can not help themselves. We can do a better job for less money than the public option. If the people for the Public Option would just look at the facts they would know the Republician Bill is soooo much better. The problem, they are so much against the republicians that they will not even look at the plan.
I challenge everyone for the Public Option to start listening to Rush, Hannity, and Glenn Beck. Then listen to Chris Matthew, Keith Olberman, and the woman (BEING PC) after Olberman. Question everyone by looking at facts and come up with your own conclusions.

Positive Change = Progress

Alvin, here are the answers to your questions as promised:

First off, I will have you know that I am a fool and wise enough to realize that.

That being said, I have not read any 1500 page bills and don’t believe that you have either.

But I believe that I like this bill anyway from snip-its and tid-bits that I have gathered about it on the news and because it represents a new and different way of providing health care that we haven’t tried yet… And I know that if it doesn’t work we can always go back to the old system (it doesn’t just get deleted from memory).

I have never read the whole Bible either but feel I know the difference between right and wrong none the less. If this bill represents what I hope and believe it does then as a loyal citizen I’m not gonna read it. I think it is or can be set up in a way to become help to every American that is sick or hurt.

I’ve heard in not so many words President Obama say that this bill will not be perfect but can be fine tuned over time. which says to me that it will or should include provisions to be re-visited and refined (hopefully frequently and often). Which leads us to a system that is flexible and able to be modified at need until it evolves into a method of coverage that self corrects to best suit the needs of it’s patients.

Tests and prescriptions will not be rationed, only administered more appropriately with less waste by consortions of doctors utilizing better technology. If added efficiency does not make up for the additional 15% of people brought into the system, then yes Alvin you will have to wait 15% longer for your care I’m sorry. Nobody will be denied care. If the cost or burden of this system is spread evenly amongst our population it could cover us all. Even help heal the illegal immigrants in our emergency rooms that were hurt working for our country.

Current estimates indicate that an all inclusive system could be implemented for about $90 per month per person. If insurance companies could maintain those prices then they’re continued competition would be 90% of the solution.

Yes we need prices on medical procedures disclosed and displayed and competitive, we need across state line competition, we need to subsidize our poorer citizens, we need to do it all… but most importantly we need to start to try. I just pray that wiser men than I are looking out for my best interests and will do the right thing, Which does not sound like killing this health care reform bill and waiting another 8 years to do nothing.

ps. Alvin what exactly do you think is “soo much better” about the Republicans plan? State lines? Do you really think the’ve got it that much cheaper over “there” that the whole medical complex is just gonna change all their prices over it? Or is it the 1% wasted on medical malpractise that’s gonna make the difference?

William,
I hope you can at least read 14 pages. The bottom link will take you to the GOP’s health care plan. Do yourself a favor and read it.

http://www.house.gov/ryan/PCA/index.htm

Ok Alvin I just read Wisconson Congressman Ryans healthcare plan and it was surprisingly not as from an alien planet as what I had expected. The sad part is that most of what he is proposing to do to save money is very similar to what the Democrats are proposing to do (all very good ideas) only using different words. The main difference that I can sight is that the Republicans want to help the poorer citizens through tax cuts (which are basically tax returns at the end of the year) or tax write offs… Money that we are supposed to pay at the end of the year to the government but are let to keep it instead if we have spent it on health insurance. And the Democrats version seems to help people a few months earlier before the end of the year and more like whenever it is needed and then don’t give you money at the end of the tax season. Which will all really be drawn out of the same tax pool either way. And all agree that the waste and unbridaled power associated with the insurance companies need to be put somehow put in check. There are more similarities between the two camps than differences. It appears that rather than Republicans and Democrats talking apples and oranges here… We may have a case of plantains and bananas. I just hope the Republicans aren’t so worried about making a Democratic President look good that they would not use this opportunity to inject their ideas into the bill by way of ammendments instead of cutting off their nose to spite their face. Making all the constituents on both sides lose. Ps. Alvin, you are entitled to drive on roads. lol;)

William,
Tax credits come in different forms and not always at the end of the year. The Democrats are not saving money, they are increasing spending and taking more money away from the people who earn it – that is the difference.
The Republicans have tried several times to talk to President. Unlike his promises, he has not allowed them voice their opinion. Only one Republicain voted for the spending of the one bill that did not include the public option. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have locked out the Republicians from the development of their versions of their bill. You just read a 14 page bill, why do they need a 1800 page document to say the same thing, if it is the same thing. You will notice their is no public option. You think you know what the plan should read, but if they will not let you read it, then you must ask WHY!
You will never see the truth if you keep on blaming the insurance companies. I do not know if you know how the insurance company receives profits. I know I explained it earlier. People like you and I own a part of healthcare. Some own it as a stock, some in a retirement fund, 401K, mutual fund, etc. You may unknowingly be part owner of a healthcare insurance company. The people who run it – must make a profit for you the owner. The executives are rewarded for making money. This is a business – it is not personnel it is just business. The executives are paid well for what they do. There are rules set up in the insurance company that determines pay. I believe the rules on executive pay should be made by the owners directly. For the most part, they are. The problem now is the Obama Administration is trying to dictate there pay. They have aready did this with Wall St. Of course that is a whole different topic that could take days to explain.
I for one would like to make the same pay as an executive. Once, I achieve that – do you think that my pay should be dictated by Obama or by my performance should you decided my pay because you are a stock holder.
I know what you will argue – why not take the pay of the executive and give it towards health care for the poor. I do think we should help the poor, but the best way to help the poor is to not hand them everything, but to get them out of proverty. Help them to help themselves. We do not help some by giving them things we take from someone else. People that can not physically or mentally achieve success should be cared for, but only the people who can not physically or mentally help themselves. You and I know more than half the people living on the system can help themselves, but choose not to. They would rather live off of the government – which means we pay from when they are born until they die. That is what the Public Option does, but it also taxes soooo much that people that could help themselves find that they can not. A lot of people live paycheck to paycheck with very little room for more money coming out of their budget. One more tax or an increase of inflation due to the drop of the dollar’s worth throughout the world can break a families budget. Everytime we borrow from China our dollar’s worth goes down. Which means something that cost one dollar last year cost 1.5 to 2 dollars now. Of course a person’s paycheck did not go up that fast. I do not know anyone’s pay that doubles in a year, nor do I know a business person that doubles his profits for the same amount of product or service.
I am glad you read the bill. I believe the more someone knows the better chance that person can make the right decision for themselves. Please do not stop short of just reading the Republician bill. Take care!

so much for bi-partisanship.