So Roger, If they refuse to sign a NDA and without a patent, will you still do business with them?

Without a patent, the individual I contacted inside P&G refused to sign a NDA, I refused to do business with him. If all one has to do is tweak an idea 15% or do a so called workable, then it would seem-in some cases-be smart to have something to protect your idea before approaching the company?

I agree with your range of costs, the current prototype I have is not pretty, but it clearly demonstrates the benefit and costs me only $10 to make myself.

I think in my case, I’m looking for someone that has the experience to respresent my idea, have the knowledge in legal/contracts, and/or the ability to present the idea through maybe their own current contacts or established relations.

With that, not all ideas have the same value, and not all circumstances are the same. If I have an idea that I feel is worthy of pursueing on my own, then I have placed a greater potential on it’s true value. Any, if not all of my ideas here at EN I think are good, and maybe with the exception of a couple, I would not take the time to venture on my own because it is most likely the potentially interested company I would target would be the very business I have entered to EN’s LPS’.

Susan, as a general rule if they will not sign an NDA I will not submit my ideas to them. There are a couple companies that I will submit to without an NDA only because they were rhighly recommended by other Inventors whom I trust and they have dealt with them before and the company showed themselvs to be extremely trustworthy.
Here is the issue with what you said
“If all one has to do is tweak an idea 15% or do a so called workable, then it would seem-in some cases-be smart to have something to protect your idea before approaching the company?”

No matter how well you protect your idea there will be knockoffs if it is a market that is profitable. The question that comes next is what will you be financially alble to do about it? If you were going up against me, the playing field would be level. If you were going against P&G it would be an uphill battle. Because you have to ask yourself “Can I fund a fight that may take years?” Your best recourse in the case of a large company would be the media. Large companies do not like bad press that affects the bottom line.
I am not saying you shouldn’t go after a large comany if they have done you wrong. I am just pointing out the reality of what you can expect. Just because you have a patent does not automatically deter companies from going after the same product. Your best protection is branding and how quickly you can flood the market with your product before they come out with their version. There are a number of companies that specialize in knockoffs and consider lawsuits the cost of doing business.
Inventing is a high risk venture, but a lot of fun too. You just need to make sure you have more money coming in than going out. There are many Inventors with great ideas that will be paying off a debt for years and never see a dime of profit because they jumped in without doing their homework first.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Thank you Roger, As always I value your advice. Your response just validates the reason as to why I’m so obsessed in finding the right person to approach P&G for me. I would not be so stubborn on this one idea if I didn’t already have the confidence and knowledge of it’s great potential.

As I have learned, Stephen Key has produced alot of (PPAs?) patents on his Spin lable for (maybe) the very reason he wanted to insure control over his idea with the Spin label idea and avoid knockoffs? That’s why with this idea I have, I feel it’s to my best advantage to have a professional participate in the PPAs, signing contracts, etc., so that the claims and playing field will narrow down and create less opportunity for any knockoffs or steals. It just seems as though it can be too easy at times if your do not create some prior leverage with them or when apporoaching the big guys. So someday I’m hoping I can hit base with them, avoid a strike out or a steal and make a homerun!…But until then this one will be on hold because it will probably cost me some money or I’ll wait to find someone else that is willing to invest in it.

Susan, it might be helpful to others here to give an idea of what you do to research these companies. That is why I started this thread. I want everyone to see what resources are available and if anyone has a method know of us have tried before.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Roger, I can not add much to your suggestions as you have stated above as I have done pretty much every one.

My point is that once I obtained “The Contact” I was not prepared to play that field because I knew immediatly what I was up against. I did not have a patent and I knew unless I had some form of protection, that I could just lose everything.

As you affirmed by stating, “As a general rule if they will not sign an NDA I will not submit my ideas to them.”

So if I had anything to share in this thread with my experience…Make sure you secure your idea in someway. ;-)

Roger, thanks a million for the great advice. I’m glad EN lets you in here!

How do you check to see how ethical a company is? If EN doesn’t find a home for one of my ideas, there’s a private company I plan to approach. They already manufacture and distribute many related products that are in all the major stores; they have the lion’s share of their particular market.

My idea would fit perfectly into their product line. Ron K. says that it’s a plus that the company is still run by the family that founded it 60+ years ago (a US company and factory).

I know there will be lots of copycats if my idea hits the market, but this company could quickly flood the market first.

A google search just gives basic info; Linkedin is no help. Is there an inventor’s website or forum where inventors post their experiences with a company? Is there a blacklist of inventor unfriendly companies?

Linda Linda, I don’t think EN has a problem with me offering my opinion in this forum since they know I want to help Inventors succeed and avoid getting ripped off or deep in debt. I search for articles written on the company. You can put the word compliant, lawsuit, inventor after their name in a search. Look at the Better Business website in their area for complaints. Check these forums and places like this http://www.inventors.org/patlaw/file-a-complain... There are more you just have to search for them. Inventors that have had bad experiences often post them in their blogs. You can check http://www.uiausa.org/ also.
There is no one stop shop to check every companies ethics with Inventors that I am aware of at this time.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

The fact that EN does let you post here is probably a reflection on their ethics. And confidence. (I hope!)

I’ve pasted and copied your great advice so I don’t lose it. Thanks!!!

Roger,

Thanks for the great info. Very helpful. As of yet, I have not contacted any companies with my inventions. I don’t rule that out as an option though. The only thing I have done in preparation for that day so far is to walk the stores looking for similar tyupes of products and writing down the manufacturer name. It’s a start, right? :) I’ll be doing more research once my kids are in school. So I’ll let you know if I have anything to add to the list.

Still looking for your pebble peeler in my Walmarts..why are they holding out on us North Carolinians? :)

Roger, I follow your method almost exactly. I have actually found a way to get the email address of almost any executive or decision makers in almost any company. I am so busy with the current LPS searches and on a few outside EN – I can’t handle much more – you have tought me well in the last 2 years. I still remember the lame idea I sent you awhile back when I was still very green. It’s almost embarassing. Anyway, your method works and works well. No patent, no manufacturing just sell sheets and NDA’s. You ARE da man !!!!!!

Roger, I have approached inventing by throwing money at my ideas. Probably the easiest and dumbest way. The best I have done to this point is finding a distributor to pay 50% of the manufacturing, packaging and distribution of one of my novelty ideas for a 50% split of the profit. Not that bad of a deal, because I only needed the idea and half the money and they do everything else. However, I have several thousand dollars into it and thankfully have made my money back, but not much more. That was a huge learning experience for me. However, I am getting very interested in your methods. My way doesn’t work well and your way does and is much cheaper. I too am glad you are willing to share your experiences and knowledge here.

Okay, my main points…
1. Would you or do you consider contacting a company that explicitly states the idea must be patented before they will look at it? Any loop hole there or just a waste of time.
2. Do you have an example of your sell sheet format and your particular NDA that you could share? If not, I understand.

Ultimately, I would like to submit to Coleman, but I have a way to go before I will / can do that unless EN brings them or a similar company on as a sponsor.
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/ColemanCom/licen...

I too have looked for your Pebble Peeler in our Walmart here in Fremont Michigan. I have checked kitchenware and the grocery isles. Are they placing elsewhere in the stores? I want to get one for my wife and mother-in-law.

Roger, I just found your sell sheets on your website. There great. Thanks.

I subscribe to pertinent trade magazines: Sleep Foundation, Sleep Review, Sleep Savvy, RV Business, RV Pros, Packaging and Response. And, of course, Inventors Digest (since 1997).

Many magazines have a ‘Product Review’ or ‘New Products’ column, which is usually free, and I get my products featured.

Michael, Margeret, thanks for the kind words. I am happy to see others making head way in this business. It is great to see others learning to spend less and still succeeding. Cander09, glad you found the sell sheets I put on my website so people can see some examples..Keep up the fantastic work.
Julie, you are making me proud to be a member of the Brown clan. : )

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Thank you, Roger – and there are so FEW of us!

Michael: I too had sent Roger a “not too bright” idea and he was very helpful. I hope you win your LPS G7 this time.

Win an LPS or not, I really have a lot to thank this website for, for getting me access to folks like Roger.

Thanks jeeth, I agree people have been so helpful. Good luck to you.

there really is no such thing as a not too bright idea, just that we see our ideas from one perspective, ours. when someone else sees it they notice many things we dont. This is why I consider myself a ‘reverse engineered engineer’. I didnt go to school for engineering per se, majored in chemistry and physics, but worked industrial maintenance for a good while so knowing how to fix machinery to make it run or run better I take ideas and design them with the user in mind. many great engineers out there do not do this. ever try to fix a strut on a car when the bolt that holds the stabilizer bar only has a little area in the back to grab and you have to first loosen it to get hold of that, this is where engineers fail us. thinking of our product from the users point of view often will reveal our idea not to be as great as we originally thought. This is how a great idea turns into a good or not so good idea. When inventing you should always put yourself in the end user’s place. If I design a product, how easy will it be for the person using it to operate, or to fix it. the biggest thing I find is cars, you have to have special tools to work on them. the old days when people used to tinker with their cars should have let the engineers know that many people want to do their own work. but then they invent fasteners for which you have to buy a 30 dollar wrench or tool to use, but for many people who cannot afford to pay a mechanic and have the ability to fix their own cars have to invest in all of these special tools(or make them if possible like I do most of the time). making a product or providing designs like i do should always have the end user in mind. this could be a good selling point as well if you can advertise ‘easy to assemble’ and actually mean it(we all have seen those nightmares-hours to assemble that ‘easy to assemble’ toy or desk)
I am working on a prototype for a customer and have made some changes along the way to make it easier for the user, and to make it less prone to problems as well, even though the first model worked very well. So my advice is to make sure your product lives up to your standards, and if you say it is easy to assemble, mean it or if you say easy to operate, mean it. these are the best selling points to approach having your product marketed.

Hi Shawn,

Design products with the end user in mind? Geez, what a novel idea! Shawn, I think you’re on to something . . . !

You sound like my car-guy hubby. He’s said that the engineers who design engines ought to first be required to work in an auto repair shop. It makes no sense (he says) to have to remove a bunch of stuff (and pay labor charges) to get at the relatively cheap part that needs replacing.

Once, I crawled under an SUV with him because he needed four hands to fix a part (couldn’t hold it and fix it simultaneously).

Someday I’ll tell you folks a few of the horror stories he’s told me about the car repair business. Not the fraud, just the ignorance, and the crappy way mechanics are paid. Like the woman who paid $1500 for a five cent nytye (sp?). (8^(

Shawn, Linda, you have each pointed out a great flaw that every Inventor needs to address when they design their product. You should also use that criteria when you search for companies to approach with your idea. Are the prodcuts they produce user friendly or over engineered? Companies that have items that are over engineered have a tendency to have lower sales compared to the company that can make the same product more user friendly.
The reason cars are made where you need special tools is to keep you from fixing it at home. They want you to have to go to the dealership for repairs. They make more money off of the parts than the original car. 60 minutes did a segment a few years back where they added up the parts required to make the car from scratch. The car made from bought parts cost 8 times more than the original cost of the car from a dealership. There have been a number of products taken off the market because they made it out of quality parts and its failure rate was to low. So, they were not making enough money off of replacement parts. Look at how many products are not worth the cost of fixing them and it is more cost effective to purchase a new one. We are a wasteful and disposable society.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Roger, Have you ever worked with an inventor and helping Him or Her take there idea / invention to the Market Place and you getting a good percentage of the profit from the invention. I have about 15 great ideas that i know they will sell, just a thought. Money is always an issue.
Thanks a Million $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Frank L. Lucero

Frank, I have helped numerous Inventors with advice, contacts, reviewing their presentations/pitch before submittal to a company and introductions to contacts within companies. A number of them have gone on to get their products licensed. I have tried to let them do the majority of the work since I am trying to teach them, not do the work for them. I have been doing this for free for a long time, but have had to be more selective who I try and help due to the amount of time it is taking away from my own projects. I could make a 40 hour a week job just out of the people that contact me weekly.
I get approached all the time by Inventors wanting me to take their product and run with it. It has gotten to the point where some Inventors just send me their prototype or sell sheet (unsolicted by me) and basically say " call me when it is licensed." I send these back. I get offers for 50/50 splits, and all manner of proposals. If you look at this forum, Inventorspot and Inventright before they took down their forum I try and answer as many questions as possible to the best of my ability.
My biggest issue is the Inventors that get very pushy about me not answering their email within seconds of them sending it. I am not Google. LOL I answer emails as I have time between projects or based on how long of an answer it will take. I don’t read every single thread on every forum on the web to see if anyone has posted a question for me. Yet, I get emailed directly by an Inventor chastising me for not responding to their post they put up an hour ago. Everyone thinks they are the only one asking questions and don’t realize their is a large crowd wanting help. That is the reason this forum is so popular. I get Inventors that are angry because I do not want to give them my home phone or cell phone number. I tried that and was getting calls at 3am because they do not understand time zone differences and they want to talk for 3 hours. I have had to change my phone number because of this several times.
I don’t really post those that I have helped because I feel that is up to them if they want to do that and I am not sure if that would not feed the flood I am trying to avoid. I want to be clear that I enjoy helping Inventors anyway I can I just want Inventors to understand they are not the only ones asking for help and to be patient with me.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Thanks Roger, I am a very thankful person and i do not take any one for granted. I am a firm believer in don’t bite the hand that feeds you. I know that you are a very business person and i do appreciate all your help. I hope you have a great day. If i have any questions can i e-mail you concerning my ideas.
Sincerely,
Frank L. Lucero

Yes Frank you can email me. I look forward to anyone that wants to email me. All I ask is understand I try to have a life just like the rest of you. My not answering your email within ten minutes of receiving it does not mean I don’t like you or am in any way slighting you. It just means I haven’t gotten to it yet. Email count so far today is 62. LOL
My direct email is rbrown@rogerbrown.net You can also find it on my website http://www.rogerbrown.net

Hi everybody,

I use an invention workbook . I dont have patents and i found out the best way of contacting manufactures.
If you send a personal address letter to the CEOs it wont be blocked by the receptionist .Every email and typed flyers are screened and emails are blocked.
You can search companies at the libarary and the way to look them up is through the SID numbers- which you find on similar products.
There are also alot of sharks out there.
I did talk with a company resently and was asked if i had a patent, i replied no .She replied " Well we wont meet with you if you dont have a patent" I replied that i have a inventors wookbook and she would need to sign in it before they see the idea. “OH you do have a workbook so you know the system”she replied. I then replied that i didnt need a patent as yet ,and that if i had a patent and showed the idea they could change a few things and re-patent and i am out. She then said oh well thats the risk you take. You would then have a year to develop this as its now public knowledge.

Thanks

Craig Rapihana
(kiwi)

Hi Roger great info, Thanks, I am still trying LOL To get the meeting. I understand what you are saying but I just can’t seem to get the meeting. Still hoping.
Leah

Hi Roger and everyone else so I was wondering if you could give me some pointers/advice everyone seems appreciate it so I had gotten some good advice from cander09 to make my own prototype and I am going to be done soon and am wondering what are the steps next I should be researching and looking for or do you or any one you know have a check list you go threw the steps to help me get my final produtc ready to submit to companys thanks for youre help

Daniel, it depends what is your end goal? Are you wanting to manufacture and sell it yourself or are you going to look for licensing? If it is licensing you need to be doing your research on your market and the companies within that market. Is your product already out there? If not what product is close to it? You need to be workiing on your pitch and sell sheet and have them both complete before contacting any company. You need to have an NDA ready to send to companies that don’t have one themsleves prior to sending them any material. You need to be researching your target comanies and have information on whom to contact within the company. You need to make sure your sell sheet is short and to the point. No more than two pages. If your product is that complicated it needs more pages, break it down in general terms to two pages and include the statemnet “Additional Informantion available upon request.” You need to be RON (Handi-Straps). By that I mean you need to know your product form the ground up and be able to articulate your products benefits to anyone in under 1 minute. You could wake Ron out a dead sleep and a I guarantee he could pitch his product without hesitation.
This is just a quick list to get you started.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Thanks to everyone for sharing all their experience.

I am new to EN and I have learned so much from reading these forum.

Can anyone refer a good CAD designer that you guys had good experience with. Also when working with these company should you insist they sign a NDA?

antoinplay5, no I did not hire a CAD designer. A comic book Artist friend of mine drew them. We swap services. He draws comics and I write comics. So if either of us needs the others talent we do it for free.
We each agreed to this arangement to help us cut costs and to help us get ahead in our fields. I do draw the less complicated sell sheets myself. The money I spend is mainly on postage, faxes, prototype materials I use to prove proof of concept. I also have frinds that draw and we split the license if a company decides to license it. If no ones bites we are both out our time on the project. We each understand we are doing this on spec where they draw it and I am the one contacting and talking to companies.
To answer your other question I don’t my material to the company until we each have a signed original of the NDA.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Roger,I use most of your techniques for finding companys.
Alot of time I search patents looking to see who the assignee and inventor is. The assignee in alot of case’s is a company or manufacture,this method gets me started on my contact search. I also rely heavy on company profile search on hoovers.com. I can find the company, executives, description, financials, competition,press releases,subsidarys & locations. If you learn to master Hoovers it can be a great tool.

Thanks Guys,

Does anyone know of a good CAD designer and prototype company that has a good REP.

Thanks Roger

I have been looking for a post containing this information. I have already done much of what has been written regarding my product. However, my question is how to negotiate the royalty agreement with a potential contract manufacturer.

One company indicated they want to manufacture the item, but probably do not want to pay royalties, and want me to sell it myself, which I am not sure if I want to take on that job as I would rather design new products and not hire employees. Another company really liked the prototype I showed them, and believes it would do well in the market. I need to meet with them again, but have not yet discussed the royalties issue with them.

Antoinette, I provide 3-D CAD services, so you can contact me if you are interested. I work with a few prototype companies locally (to my location) that do a good job. I mostly design injection-molded plastics parts.

Hello everyone, Roger.
I’m new here and to the whole inventing thing. I’ve always had lots of ideas but never thought I could do anything with them. A friend of mine turned me on to EN and I am now doing drawings to submit in one of the product searches. My concern and question is, is it safe to do so with out a patent? I have researched the product I’ve invented and there isn’t one in existance that I can find. I realize that copy cats are out there and like you said some companies make it there business but I am so new and thought this product search was a great way to try. In your expert opinions, do I need to get a patent or NDA, or just go ahead and submit it to the search? I appreciate any and all advice. Thanks so much.

Welcome to Edison Nation Jolane!

You are not required to have a patent or patent-pending status of any kind to submit to one of the Live Product Searches on Edison Nation. If selected for commercialization by a retailer, Edison Nation will invest in any necessary patent applications, filings and maintenance. Your name will be included on any patent or patent application that we file on your behalf after your idea has been selected.

To protect your invention, it is important to keep a bound inventor’s notebook. This allows you to write and sketch down your ideas, date it and have a trusted friend that is knowledgeable in the invention’s field initial the page (this confirms that it is your idea and that it was created on that date). In the U.S. it is the first to invent, not the first to file. This notebook allows you to prove when you came up with the concept. Also, if your idea passes our internal review we will have the search sponsor sign a confidentiality agreement prior to presenting.

Wow, Thanks so much Maria!
I did read some of that information in the product search details however, the confidentiality agreement is great to know. It’s really hard to read all these forums and keep up with it. I have so many questions that I’m sure have been answered a million times for others but it’s overwhelming and time consuming to search every topic in the forums. Can I email someone, like you, directly with any questions if I can’t find the appropriate forum?
Thanks again and I’m very excited about this whole process.

Sorry Marla….I think I need glasses. LOL…

Jolane,

A great place to start to familiarize yourself with the process is the Support Site, http://support.edisonnation.com/home . You may read through the Live Product Search Frequently asked questions (http://support.edisonnation.com/faqs/live-produ...) and email us new questions.

I found some interesting articles that other inventors may find helpful:

How to Get Your Consumer Invention to Market: http://www.ehow.com/how_2290979_consumer-invent...

How to Launch Your Invention During a Recession: http://www.ehow.com/how_4533623_launch-inventio...

I also saw Roger’s new pizza cutter in the Small Biz (http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/) Nov 2009 edition. The article titled Beyond Eureka, which is the cover story, discusses Roger’s product on pages 44-45.

I have been getting a number of questions on how I find companies to approach. So I thought I would bring this thread back to the front instead of starting a new one.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Roger, if you were out in forest you would make a great tracker and hunter,

My big question is how do you stand sitting in front of computer monitor to do all this , if i was starting this inventing thing again. i would buy myself a big screen and projector, my eyes hurt and I hate keeping my face near a computer monitor, the screen is one of my major problems i think

Brendan, only if I had my computer with me. LOL I take breaks from the computer screen as often as possible. Plus. I like connecing my laptop to the big screen TV which really helps a lot. You can read words real quickly when they are 3 inches tall. LOL

http://www.rogerbrown.net

I am going to do that

Roger,
I emailed the specialty tool electrical company we discussed. I found two possible emails, not really sure which one to send my correspondence. I ended up pickin’ one and c.c ing the other. Within less then an hour I received an email from the president of the company stating they are always looking for innovation and was more then happy to review my idea with an NDA.

He is out of town on business and I don’t expect to here further for a week or so longer but I thought it was appropriate to mention this “success” as it fits the topic of this post..

Ryan, I told you they would be a good place to start. Now comes the hurry up and wait part that I hate as much as the next person. It is good they told you they would be out of town for a week. Give them time to get back and review your product. I will keep my fingers crossed for you. Keep me/us informed on the progress.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Hi Roger, I still waiting for those CD, I’m Hope coming this week.

Have Great Day Roger.

Eduardo, you will get it this week. The holiday yesterday may have slowed it down.

Christopher, glad you liked the article in Business Week on my Pizza Scissors. I have an article coming out in the November issue of Inventor’s Digest that I hope you get a chance to read. I would love to get people’s comments on it.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Hi Roger, Can you suggest a direction for me? Here’s the story:
I have good news & bad news.
First the bad news: A few days ago I was diagnosed with shingles
The good news: Several years ago I developed a cure for a 3 year duration undiagnosable (by numerous specialists) horrible rash that covered & itched on all extremeties. It was a cure, not just a treatment.
I still had some, so I tried it on the shingles. It worked! In less than a week, the shingles are pretty well in end stage with no pain. Can you suggest how I can find some companies that would be interested in a cure or at least a treatment for shingles? I know its a huge market. Any Idea who is doing it? Thanks & puppy love from InventingJoy & the furry folk caringpro@yahoo.com

My dad got shingles about a year ago, said it was terribly painful, he’s never quite been the same, one leg is weaker now.