Interesting. It is hard to know where the boundry is between creative madness and over the hill madness.
We have to dip into the source of unconscious chaos to come up with the best ideas. The usual is not going to vow anyone. How much do we put ourselves at risk? Or are we unhinged to begin with? I think we are a bit unhinged, tittering on the brink. But, I think so long as I retain my sense of humor and can laugh at myself I feel I can bring myself back or take a break from the obsessions. Anyway, it is nice to be in company of other people who admit being “creatively crazy”.

Mira,

If you are “tittering on the brink,” you are already laughing. (;^)

Unhinged? Gee, that’s a strong word. But if it fits, I’ll wear it. (;^) Sometimes, anyway.

Our British cousin, Boxer Balls Brendan, says we suffer from the Inventors’ Illness (direct quote: I caught the sickness! I caught the sickness! )

That said, there’s a lot of mentally ill who are not creative – in fact, their illness prevents them from living a full life. And there’s a difference between being “pathological” (by definition, a dis-ease) and having an obsession, which if mild, can be rather enjoyable (and doesn’t prevent living an otherwise sucessful life).

I don’t think something that is pathological can be fun or productive (but I’m sure someone can come up with an example to prove me wrong. I’m a shallow person and don’t feel like thinking that hard.) (;^)

“And there’s a difference between being “pathological” (by definition, a dis-ease) and having an obsession…”

Well, pathological can also mean being such to a degree that is extreme, excessive, or markedly abnormal…That being said, is there an actual difference?

If you want to push the creative envelope you need to allow your mind to wonder into the uncharted territory, where old constraints do not apply. Some of us are more willing to go there, even have fun going there.
Can a mentally ill person have a creative edge? Maybe someone unusual, but mental illness,as Linda said, usually works against people. Some of the art of the insane is very striking and shows realities we do not usually see. But that is art, and it does not have to work in the real world. Inventions have to work in the practical world and other people need to find them useful. And we here on EN have to think of what will appeal to the masses at Walmart, TV, etc.

What I meant before was that laughter can be an antidote to obsession. If you are totally absorbed and serious about what you are doing you do not laugh. That is a sign of obsession. If you can occasionally laugh at yourself, and can enjoy something different, that breaks the obsession. A certain amount of focus is needed to succeed, but there are times when all the effort does not pay off and we need to have other things that are worthwhile. Maintain a balance.

I have been diagnosed as having the same genetic handicap as Wile E. Coyote called Paranoidious Creativious Desperatism Syndrome (PCDS). Although I have not had a craving for Road Runner…..yet. LOL.
I have met people that seem to have their intelligence balancing on a seesaw. They go from brillance to bizzare with the wind. It is unsettling being in a room with them and they are sitting by the only door out. LOL
I would also point out the master criminal. Are they mentally unbalanced using their creativity for profit verus using it to profit legally?

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Mira, I was just joking about tittering/teetering on the brink. But you reminded me of a museum I visited in Switzerland (I think) that featured art by schizophrenics. I don’t remember the details but the art was intense.

You guys are too deep for me. (;^)

“…you reminded me of a museum I visited in Switzerland (I think) that featured art by schizophrenics. I don’t remember the details but the art was intense.”

Ah, you must be referring to the Collection de l’ Art Brut…I actually have a few of my works being displayed there…You did mean “our” works, didn’t you? No, if I meant “our” I would have said “our”…Like I said, “my” works of art…Oh yeah, like you’re the artistic one in the family!? You couldn’t paint the board side of a barn if you were in it! Oh, ok, ya know, just because you worked part-time in Home Depot’s paint mixing department, does not make one an artist…Oh, I see how it is now, please remind me, wasn’t it you that had our paintings disqualified from the 49th Annual Skokie Art Guild Fair last year, because the judges saw the number one through your white paint!? I told you that I hate Clown paintings to begin with…You can talk to the hand, dude…Fine, I need to take my medicine anyway…Whatever!

This whole invention thing is a very peaceful experience for me. It certainly seems to bring out a much more emotionally functional creative energy than say someone like Kurt Cobain must have experienced when creating a new song or melody. That being said, it is certainly true that many of the world’s creative geniuses have also been considered quite mad.

I think it could be said that creative receptivity can bring one’s true self to the surface through the process of allowing that creativity to fully emerge. You are then “In the Zone”. That true self transcends the mind… and that may just be too simple for the mind to easily accept, so you quickly fall back to just below the surface. This could easily lead to madness. The highly creative person who has experienced the flow of creativity without being able to stay in that Zone can easily become mad in search of another “fix”, as if it were some sort of drug. There’s no denying that being in that creative flow is a very enjoyable experience. The key is to stop frantically searching for the flow of creativity. Just like a river, the flow cannot be forced without expending huge amounts of energy. That expenditure of energy in search of creativity is the source of this “creative madness”. Is madness really an acceptable price to pay for anything? Just be ready to go with the flow when it arrives. If inventing is your passion, the flow will definitely come. When you do this, you still may seem a bit crazy to others, but you’ll know within yourself that what you are experiencing is about as far from madness as you can get.

I certainly don’t want to debate my viewpoint or disagree with anyone else’s. Opinions of themselves are neither right nor wrong. They are simply a piece of one’s perception, and perception is reality. How could I possibly know more about your reality than you? Impossible.

Maybe “madness” and “creative genius” can be used as a ploy by some artists to get more attention (ie Dali). But then there were people like Leonardo da Vinci who painted very sanely and perceptively and who, on the other hand, had ideas for fantastical machines that were way ahead of their time. When is creativity delusional and when is it practical?
For us here EN is the voice of “reason”. If we repeatedly get R-4s, then we are probably delusional. But our ideas may still have a chance in a future reality.

Sir Edward, “I actually have a few of my works being displayed there…You did mean “our” works, didn’t you? No, if I meant “our” I would have said “our”…Like I said, “my” works of art…”

Boy, does that hit home with me a Retodd :-)

What Todd meant to say was “Boy, does that hit home with me and Retodd :-)” duh!

OK…I’ll admit it…I’m one of those lunatic, mental, inventor people. Over the rainbow I am crazy…..lalalalalala….crazy….lalalalala…..they have to tie me up sometimes so I don’t try to pull my arms off again…lalalala….lalal…crazy….

Roger’s f****ing nuts too you know….that ain’t his real picture either….his real picture is like Halloween everyday! Watch that guy!

(Excuse me…the doc gave me some heavy duty pain killers for my condition….wwweeeee….go a little luny more often now)

Whoaaaa! Not sure I want to post after that! However, I would like to point out that WAY BACK, in the early 40’s, my aunt was diagnosed with schizophrenia and put through hell with drugs and treatments when she was actually physic (spelling on all of it). She ‘saw’ and ‘heard’ things which then became actualities: very scary, I would imagine. Since every human being has psychic abilities (although many do not pursue this ability), what if an inventor progressed on this assumption – having an ability rather than being nuts? Works for me….

After some of these voluntary confessions I too am alittle apprehensive to say more. What kind of company do we keep. (I must say I enjoyed the posts.) Some are more comfortable with the “crazy” label than others.

If we are psychic, how do we know what will happen? Based on logic it is not possible. Maybe logic is overated.

How do we know what will work with inventions? What logical steps are we able to skip to come up with totally new solutions? Left brain thinking is slow thinking. When we ask the brain to do better and quicker it can, if we don’t try to control it. Is it madness because we don’t know how it works?

Read the lyrics from Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon “Brain Damage”

Here is an excerpt. I like the last line. LOL That could be us. LOL

The lunatic is in my head.
The lunatic is in my head
You raise the blade, you make the change
You re-arrange me ‘til I’m sane.
You lock the door
And throw away the key
There’s someone in my head but it’s not me.

http://www.pink-floyd-lyrics.com/html/brain-dam...

Hey Todd/ReTodd! Hey Sir Edward/Eddie/Edna!! Y’all hush now – y’all makin’ too much noise! You too, Roger & Co!

Ron, take all the pain pills you need . . . but no puking allowed. (;^)

Gee. I feel normal. That don’t happen often. (Matt, boy, see what you started? I’m beginning to see your point. . . .(8^)

Great thread! You guys are hysterical. LOL

Today I woke up in the “Link between creativity and mental illness” thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4nzgZ_nezw

Yes, I see madness between us, among us, inside us, outside us.

I see candy madness, animal madness, fur madness, mop madness, green madness…

Even Walmart shelves could be invaded by madness.

Yea Yea. Sure Sure.

I mean…… Its all “good” after its all done… End of story.

If., and when you did it., for the better good of the overall. It’s just that simply. Life is way to complex enough so., I try to keep it simple.

And thats what matters and after we are gone. That we did it for the good of all. Thats what get remembered most. Plus the invention. And. Not if you happened to be a bit off center LOL.

In short. We are all a bit different and most of the time. Thats good for the most part.

All people who think “outside the box” …different than normal…extraordinary (the inventor of coarse, said to be one in every 10,000)…all those types of people can be called crazy, weird….must’ve just “fell off the turnip truck”

Some examples:

The inventor of anesthesia was thrown in jail for a year for trying to kill people.
Christopher Columbus was thought of as a psycho saying the world is round.
Einstein was thought of as the biggest loser in college wasting the professors’ time.
Edison was such a rebel and a nuisance in grade school he had to be home schooled for grade school (he was thought of as a crazy kid)

I was called many names such as delusional when I made my inventions knows. They didn’t believe I could change the way the world lifts things with their body and make it many times medically safer without even one day of college let alone medical schooling.

Next I’m going to change the way the world prefers to write and perform art with a different shape instruments; a stick like system standing since the cave man. I will change that. Sounds nuts right? The patent has issued. All is proven medically and with all focus groups including “normal” mainstream, handicapped, artists, seniors.

I sound like a nut…don’t I…gonna change the way all operate writing,scribing, art instruments but all also know here….never doubt me.

Colonel – that chicken was really believable……..

A great idea is usually original to more than one discover.-Great ideas come when the world needs them.-They surround the world’s ignorance and press for admission.-A. Phelps

“Impossible” is a word only to be found in the dictionary of fools.-Napoleon

Brilliance can see genius, an idiot sees a nut -Ron Komorowski

I made that up years ago when Ross Perot ran for President. Such a talented and fast intellectual…he would rap off solutions on a level few could understand. The mass majority thought he was nuts because they just could not comprehend on his level.

This will happen time and time again especially with visionaries and inventors/innovators.

A U.S. President once said it is ridiculous to think the motor car will someday replace the horse and buggy.

I guess Henry Ford was nuts back then….Mercedes too.

It’s great to be with your own kind but I think the inventor is fermionic in nature; he can’t occupy the same state as other fermions at the same time. We can’t pool our talents together like the bosons. Imagine a company made up of nothing but inventors. It would tear itself apart with all the arguing. But we’re fine so long as we don’t reveal our secrets to one another.

As an inventor who works in a vacuum, I could have avoided quite a few mistakes if I had had someone to discuss things with. Currently, there are two EN members who have shared their ideas with me (one without protection and one with patent pending) and I have given my honest opinions and have been thanked: sometimes it isn’t so bad to share your secrets – you just have to know your audience. The one without protection is changing her design and materials and artwork: she was stuck and wouldn’t have done that and would have given up if someone she could trust hadn’t given her a boost. I’m not taking credit for giving her a boost, I am GIVING HER credit for being able to openly accept criticism and suggestions.

I do agree that a company of all inventors wouldn’t work but independent Think Tanks are a great solution – if one is not too sensitive.

Had to look up fermions – here is a brief snynopsis: “The Standard Model – What holds it together? – Fermions and bosons … A fermion is any particle that has an odd half-integer (like 1/2, 3/2, and so forth) spin. Quarks and leptons, as well as most composite particles, like protons and neutrons, are fermions.”

At first read through, I thought of an inventor as and “odd half”. ;-)

Fermions like to be independent, bosons can work together. The Pauli exclusion principle is the reason we don’t dissolve away into the ground we stand on which, as most textbooks say, is mostly empty space (not really true). It depends on fermions not being able to occupy the same space and time (also not true, they just can’t occupy the same quantum state.)

Okay, thank you for the education but now I know too much so will head over to the Lounge where there is insanity on display.

Ok. Ron. I’m with you somewhat. I agree not everyone understands the lingo or gets anything. That’s because “it is what it is.”.. different…

To be a chemist you must study chemistry; to be a lawyer you must study law medicine; but to be a politician you need only to study your own interests. max o’reill.

That explains politicians they are selfish. It’s all about them and their possy. Is that easier to break it down than all that woooh woooh!

Ron,
I think I might have replied to you a bit out of words. I will be honest that i read your response, with of quiet flash. Which meaning speed of lightning. Sorry if I jumped the wave length without thinking. Reading in a more comfortable environment… you and I have met.. thanks for the imput.

You gotta hate those nights when you drink to much wine. I should have been in the lounge on that last post. What I was trying to say..now that I’m coherent. I hope that you didn’t think that I was striking back at you. I may have read your comment a little to fast and wanted you to know that I appreciate your reply. I am on the same page.
By the way " Input " not imput. LOL

That’s ok Judy…I’ve wrote stuff over the net after having a few too many to write stuff….won’t tell you the outcome.

I’ve even started a thread here about inventing stuff drunk. I had a small group of guys and a cool shop we used to hang out in at times trying to figure out new things. I think the alcohol cleared some people’s minds of everyday hassles so we could think creative.

No drinking anymore…used to have 3 or 4 every couple weeks…now none in almost a year because of my health.

So, what is the difference between brilliant and crazy?

Can crazy be confused with brilliant? (Brilliant gibberish?)

Have you ever been fooled by a crazy?

Hi Ron.

Thankyou for your post. You put a smile on my face. I’m sorry that your health isn’t in a drinking mood. You aren’t missing anything.
My thoughts are with you and your family.

“Heaven to me’s a fair blue stretch of sky, earth’s jest a dusty road”
John Massfield

Mira…what I am saying is brilliant people can understand the genius where as the not so smart cannot comprehend the genius and can only see them as “off the wall” with crazy claims….or just simply not understand anything the genius says.

I believe this may be a real problem in elections and maybe in the executive area of corporations. The rare genius that comes along just isn’t comprehended. People in general cannot agree with their “vision” or “theories”….and so the general public just might say the genius is nothing more than a nut. Einstein, Edison, Bill Gates, IBM founder…and many more…thought to be nuts…just as many of the people we know…thinking we are nuts trying to change things that don’t need to be changed, so they think, and we expect a fortune for it.

Most inventors are thought to be nuts in the beginning. That is why we are poked fun at, but if it wasn’t for us inventors, I guess we’d all still be cave men.

My kid’s have been calling me ‘crazy woman’ for years but they know that the craziness has a brilliance to it, something different and beautiful everytime some idea comes out of my head. I don’t think of myself as being crazy, I think I’m gifted.

There are also the BRILLIANT people that “need help to tie their shoes” or are still afraid of the dark. Engineering or creative marvels but they are WEIRD in everyday life or just have “rocks in the other side of the head” as I call it.

Maybe like their brain wasn’t developed evenly, one part was over developed. I see many cases…and their extremes…marvels in engineering, innovation….that will never make it further than their garage or basement even.

We view these gifted people sometimes as whacked in the head…but maybe they are just different. I am different. Few can agree with my thought process and opinions. I think different….well different from the general concensus.

The movie “A Beautiful Mind” is based on a real story of a brilliant mathematician. I think he even got the Nobel Prize. When he initially did his groundbreaking work he was normal. And then he started getting paranoid, thinking some agent was after him and he became obsesses with these number patterns. Was it that the early form of his illness gave him the brilliant insights? But as the illness progressed he got more and more removed from reality and ability to make sense. Then the illness interfered with his creativity.

Yes! Yes! Good example. Watch the movie Good Will Hunting…another similar story. Ted Kacinski the Unibomber the same story. Einstein also some thought to be on the brink of insanity. There are many like this.

I have studied psychology and neuroscience as a hobby since a teen. Many left brained extreme thinkers can “crack” or break down just like right brained emotional people who have nervous breakdowns.

You can overuse either side of the brain and as I like to say it…the brain is no different than a hair drier, use it too long and it blows. Some people just can’t ease their mind and they crack. I’ve studied this for years and have theories that need to be reviewed in colleges. A couple of psychologists have said my theory on this is the most clearly explained as they ever heard.

Interesting stuff!

Where’s Matt? He should know what he started!

I never thought of myself as an inventor (still don’t). But this topic has given me insight into the kind of people drawn to this field. Fascinating.

Ron, only you could compare the human brain to a hair dryer – and make sense. (;^)

”Most inventors are thought to be nuts in the beginning. That is why we are poked fun at, but if it wasn’t for us inventors, I guess we’d all still be cave men.”

“Well, to be quite honest with you, I find Mr. Komorowski’s ridiculous statement here rather offensive, teetering on blasphemous! I mean, seriously, what if GEICO Insurance felt the same prejudicial insensitivity as what Mr. Komorowski is spewing forth here…I wouldn’t be the iconic trademark commercial superstar that I am, now, would I?!

Oh yeah, that’s right…A “caveman” and an “inventor”…BAM!”

Brilliant as ever, Sir Edward! But I understand why you need to hide your name and face.

I have a strange tale. I knew a woman (friend?) who insisted that there was no such thing as mental illness. In her mind God would not create mentally ill. One time in a “spiritual” group we were in she insisted that people should be able to fly. I could not resist and I said: “But, people have already been flying for years – in airplanes.” She gave me a disapproving look and again insisted that people should be able to fly if they wanted to. O.K. I admit I fly sometimes in my dreams (whatever Freud may say about that). But that is not what she meant. People, she thought, should be able to fly when they felt like it because it is in us to be able to fly. Well, I thought, if we were able, why aren’t we doing it already? There are all the movies with superheros, crouching tigers, etc. I looked at her strange eyes. It occurred to me: maybe she is really a witch. Maybe witches do exist? Who else would fly? They are said to use a broom, though. I have to say I haven’t thought of that with my O-Cedar design. I was focused on the dirt.
Comment?

Has she refilled her prescription lately? I will try to be polictically correct when I say I had the “Pleasure” of meeting a large number of people at comic book conventions that made you wonder where their adult supervision had gone. I would be a guest at the convention as a Writer of various comic books. People would come to you to get things signed or discuss various characters they liked or hated. It never failed to amaze me the amount of people that took things to literally. They would argue about how no one could be in solid form and touch things as the human torch since he was really fire at the time. Or that the HUlk should be yellow instead of green because of the type of radiation he was exposed too. The list goes on and on with all the comments they seriously believed to be true. They seemed to be having reality issues and I was concerned that they might be armed. Then you would ask what type of work they did and it would surprise you the positions they held. Like the congressman that is a member of the flat earth society.
As far as your friend, the witch, throw water on her and see if she melts. It worked in the wizard of OZ and that was real right? LOL

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Roger! I’m NEVER going to approach you again at a comic book convention! I had no idea that you felt that way about ‘us’ attendees. Actually, I don’t really care about ‘us’ either – just me, me, me. ;0)

Seriously, and along the same line of thought: have you ever talked, face to face, with a cult member? That glazed eyes, that blank look, are a result of being deprived of enough protein: much easier to control someone and their mind if they are complacent due to lack of protein. If you try to talk logic or argue, it is rather like talking to a wall.

You should try a high protien diet it’s amazing how much weight you can lose and maintain it with ease for three years…andwith vegeies its really healthy you would never guess I am 43..LOL

If anyone here is getting creative use this and run with it…lol

Maria

My secret to health – Hemp Seed Butter (better than fish oil or flax seed oil as it has the right ratio of Omega 3 & 6 and its actual food, complete protein), Ezekiel cereal, and Kombucha. Consume these daily and you will look and feel better.

Hemp? Brain butter? I was reading this funny. I had to research hemp. It turns out there is more than one type of hemp. They are plants of many virtues indeed. But be careful which hemp you use to butter your brain.

Careful? In 10,000 years of use nobody has ever died from cannabinoids. You should look up the LD50 on cannabinoids, and then consider we produce endogenous versions and have receptor sites in our brain for such molecules.

Many claim that cannabinoids enhance creativity/madness. Ironically The Omega 3 & 6 EFAs also provided by hemp have been shown to alleviate Bipolar tendencies whatever the hell that means.

Yeah “Bipolar”, as if one could be monopolar or tripolar…