Roger:
Humbly I speak! ;-) My ongoing, educated, thinking says that the observed product, albeit inferior to yours, is 1: something that is presently “off-patent”, NO royalties due at this time and 2: you are NOT known to them, yet! Case in point – Werner Ladders(are u listening Werner?) currently sells an “off-patent” standing platform that is really, truly, inferior to what I have available. Shortly I hope the likes of Werner Ladder learns of the availability of “DJOC’s Platform”, Patent Pending(Utility & Design), Patentability Opinion had, a one piece standing platform meant for extension ladders, but their web site seems to “hint” at NIH issues where Louisville Ladder has a “drop down menu” that allows for the submission of new ideas. Peace. DJOC.

What about the Segway?

Investors lost millions in that project and I can only imagine the Pitch that suckered them all in to that!

Good question Roger….hmmm..What did they say in their pitch?..well here is just a few of my obsevations.. When I see a product on store shelves that seems sort of bogus,I always figured that the company has had luck with these sort of items in the past.I also think first that this item was created from that companies product design dept.
Maybe it’s intentionally designed and produced to be cheaper price wise to stand out in a sea of products ?
I know sometimes when shopping for a item that may only get used once or twice in a lifetime, Price wins in alot of cases. As long as the item completes the basic task why invest in commercial quality?

having proven products does help get your foot in the door, but you still need a marketable idea once you get there. Unless you do like some companies and just flood the store shelves with what ever they can find to block out and competition on the shelf.

http://www.rogerbrown,net

How do we know its junk? Maybe it isn’t and we just think ours is better. Maybe they’re on to some value or marketing/sales angle that we just haven’t grasped yet.

How many of us first looked at Popeil’s ‘pocket fisherman’ and laughed at it? But old Ron was a smart guy and made a bundle. I thought the ‘garden weasel’ was junk but now I see it in lots of hardware stores and, more importantly, people’s sheds or backyards.

My point is that its too easy to get married to our own inventions. When we see something like this on the shelf our first reaction should not be to dismiss it as inferior but to try to learn from it. (To some extent that’s what Roger’s exercise is doing here.)

Maybe it really is junk (remember the Edsel?), but we have to consider the possibility that it isn’t. If it is junk and got on the shelf, then there are different lessons to be learned.

Bob, You are so right!

I worked in retail for years and new stuff would come in and we would put it on the shelves and I would say “no one is going to buy that!”, and every time I would say that they would sell like hot cakes and they would be on back order for a long time……..I must admit that the one thing you can never be sure of and this what are people going to go for?

Ken and Bob, you are each bringing up great observations. That is what I want people to do on this thread. Look at it from ever angle not just your ego. What did they do differently that you are not doing? What did they say in their pitch that got the company to think this product will have a market and consumers will buy it?
These are questions that can make or break your chances. Look at something that you consider junk and ask yourself if you had to pitch this item how would you approach it? It is easy to pitch things you love, try doing it with something you can’t stand. I’m not saying lie about the product, but truly try to see the benefits of the product and build on that.

Look at Snuggies whether you love them or hate them they are selling like crazy. How would you pitch that product to someone that has never seen or heard of it?

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Another thought?:}

Roger; as you stated it is very easy for an Inventor to love his own invention…..
That being the case then like all babies they speak highly of their own and do everything to dazzle investors and retailers and sometimes they do get lost in the smoke and mirrors of the pitch. But when any invention is selected to move forward it is just a crap shoot as there are no guarantees, but wouldn’t we all like to know we have a home run winner or failure before we pursued it?

Ok, I’m starting to understand this quiz Roger. Good explanations Bob and Ken !

Ken, the problem is no one can guarantee your outcome since the final judge is the consumer. You can’t poll all 260 million of them and ask “If you build it will they come?” Look at all the movie critics that say a certain movie is horrible, yet it ends up a blockbuster. Look at how many publishers turned down Harry Potter. Don’t you know they are kicking themselves on that one.
Everything about inventing is a shot in the dark. What you are doing when you do your research and honing your product down to be its best, is improving your odds of success, you are not guaranteeing it. You want to make informed decisions not a blind guess.
I get rejections just like anyone else. Would I like to get rid of the rejections and only get Yes’s you bet, but in it doesn’t work that way in the real world. In the real world the minority make it and the majority lose a lot of time and money. We are all betting on being the minority.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

“You gotta sell the sizzle, not the steak.” It’s not enough to fill a need, you have to create one. I personally get too focused on the way the problem is solved and lose sight of the greater problem and bore people with the engineering details that they really don’t want to hear. The greater problem is to sell the sizzle on as cheap a cut of steak as possible. A good example is how cantastic did it. I would have focused on the new conveyor idea and how it’s cheaper and more compact than a lazy susan but the name and the excitement the commercial creates makes me want to buy it even though I don’t own any cans.

Ralf, you are moving in the right direction realizing you get to focused on one area that the other person is not interested in. Same goes for Investors. Most don’t care how it works or looks they just want to know if it will make them money. If you can show them that it will make them money they are happy. The consumer buys it wanting it to do as advertized and are willing to buy it for that service. You have to know what each tier is wanting and meet that goal. That is how you find success.
You can’t go to a company and say this will solve every problem a person has but you won’t make any money on it. All they will show you is the door out.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

“You can’t go to a company and say this will solve every problem a person has but you won’t make any money on it. All they will show you is the door out.”

I love that! That idea only works in Star Trek where no one works for money, but for self improvement and for oneself accomplishments and for the well being of mankind…..However, when they do need cash for some far away planet they use the replicator?

Branding and packaging can win the day even if the product is substandard.
Price is so important!! a consumer will buy a product even though they will never use it due to a great price.
For me the question is when the consumer first sees my product what have i triggered in there mental prose’s (there are so many ways to induce a consumer to make a purchase)
So when creating a product i think its important to know the difference and pick a direction that will showcase the product in the best possible way.

I may be way off base yet this is what i think for now anyway :)

A.M.C.

It makes me think of the weed auger you see for 19.95, I thought it was junk, but then I was digging holes for my posts for my garage and the dirt was hard clay and couldnt afford to rent an auger I thought of that commercial ant took a couple of two inch washers, slit them along one side and bent them into a helix and welded them to a piece of 3/8 inch steel rod, attached to my drill and it worked perfectly loosening the clay so I could dig the holes. it cost me about two dollars to make (less actually because I had washers left over from a previous project and think they were a quarter a piece or so.

My son is 12 and believes every claim on every infommercial. The pitchmen are energetic and enthusiastic. When we watch TV, he pays more attention to those commercials, shushing us up so he can hear. They can sum up the item in a few words at the same time they make him feel we are just pathetic without the “thing”. When we go to the store and happen to actually see the “thing”, he’s usually not as impressed. Like Ralf said. The sizzle sold him.

I have asked myself that a hundred times. -) and even after having two of my inventions make it to thelarger market place like home direct menards osco jewel e brown the skymall and many more it comes down to money cost point and ( how good is yur REP/ marketing firm period. Numbers does it meet the cost to end sale point.im burnt out financially but im still thinkin and now willing totake part of loaf wallmart wanted my first invention at that time they had 3500 stores they wanted 144 fob per store and the same instock thats alotta cash i couldnt prove i could do it and thatg my friend is only one piece of a huge puzzle

Seems to me like it just takes a few interested people with the power to hit the “Yes” button. Power means a lot. If you can get the right person to fall in love with your idea, junk or not, it’ll be on the shelves. Not just in retail, but with music, acting, or even restaurants… Just my Opinion.

Dumb luck does happen, but you need to look at how long they are out on the market. Or how long before they are selling a lot cheaper than they started out just so the company that made it can get rid of their inventory. Those types of items make it that much harder for the rest of us to get in the door. Because once a company sees the outside idea they took a chance on is a dud they are more reluctant to give the next one a chance.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

If i can remember rightly hearing somewhere, nobody wanted picassos paintings until a rich russian industrialist or someone bought loads of them, and since then everyone says they are absolutely fascinated,
by the paintings

which baffles me, (only my opinion)

Some things get a feeding frenzy if they get enough exposure. The Snuggie is a perfect example. If the late nite comedians hadn’t poked fun at it, followed by the FoxNews crew wearing them on their morning show, Regis and Kelly wearing them, and numerous other media outlets would the sales for the product been as high?
If you can give the public the idea that in order to be cool they have to have this product it will sell.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

That is so true Roger. Just use the magic of the media with a celebrity and you could sell most anything. Brendon, a guy took some paintings from a three year old kid, told everyone they were from a famous artist and presto, they were great works of art.

I recently submitted a suggestion to a major craft manufacturer who was seeking outside ideas… here’s part of their ad:

We are currently accepting submissions for new product ideas and innovative crafting kits with a message of world peace, that can be mounted on a wall or refirigerator door.

I submitted a suggestion for a kit: half sphere with a floating white dove with a nylon hanger AND stick-on magnet… 45 days after the presentation they notified me via telephone that I was chosen as a finalist and if my suggestion was selected, they would send the offer and contract by mail…. Fed Ex delivered a registered 8×10 envelope yesterday morning from the Company in question (heart pounding ~ hands shaking). Inside the envelope were copies of our correspondence along with a three paragraph letter that basically stated they had not picked my suggestion. I got beat out by a PRE-PAINTED SECTION OF BATHROOM TILE WITH A STENCIL OF A PEACE SYMBOL THE BUYER RUBS A PERMANENT MARKER (or spray painted) OVER, THEN STICKS AN INCLUDED SQUARE OF DOUBLE-SIDED TAPE ON THE BACK!
Wow… now that’s cutting edge inovation!!!

On the left is my suggestion… on the right is what was selected.

BTW: material cost to build mine is about .97cents… guess that’s what sunk me.. <:-/

Wow Frank, don’t know what to say. The peace symbol was out in the 60’s. You would think they
would want to update it with your version. I love yours. Send it to other companies.

Thanks Toni,

Ah yes. He’d been given a membership in the jelly of the month club. We’ve watched that a hundred times.

Sorry, Frank. I love the dove!! They went for simple and easy instead of creative and unique. I wonder if most deals break that way… too bad, if it’s true.

LOL… like Clark, I made about four long sighs at different tones while digesting the news! LOL

The peace tile may seem like it’s simple and easy, but just look at the mess they made trying to spray paint over the stencil on their “demonstrator”! Being a Modeler, I can attest to how difficult it is to get clean lines when trying to spray a small stencil… an airbrush would be better suited for the task, but how many ppl have airbrush outfits to use"? On the other hand, my arrangment is all snap-together with two peel & stick strips, and can be assembled/ready to hang in 4 minutes at the most.

The fam could be already getting use to seeing my dove on the wall/refrigerator before the paint would even be dry on the tile piece! LOL

I’m thinking the one who made the decision must have some nostalgic Woodstock connection going on? LOL

Frank, it is always hard to see why you get rejected. It can have nothing to do with your product other than you were just not the direction they wanted to go or they feel it would not appeal to their target market or be to techy. It can also be cost versus return. That is one of the frustration of this business. You are trying to appease someone you don’t know with a product they have never seen or seen to many versions of. It is always interesting and never dull, but it certainly can be nerve racking too.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Thanks Roger,

Frank, over the years between writing comic books for a living and inventing I have had more rejection than I want to remember. The last rejection hurts just as much as the first one unless you learn how to understand it is just a part of doing business and learn from it.

http://www.rogerbrown.net