I disagree Mark…what a surprise :)

I think if I am looking at two similar products on the shelf and one says it was made with environmentally friendly products and the other was not, then I would absolutely choose the green product over the non-green product.

Same thing goes with the breast cancer products or the products that support the breast cancer products.

When I see a pair of socks that have that symbol on them I will buy that product because it supports that cause and it also let’s people know that I support that cause.

So yes, I absolutely think on an even playing field that my green product would beat out your non-green product.

No frigging way woman!

It’s all just hype and the fact that you would let it influence your purchasing decision is just crazy talk…so maybe we shouldn’t buy something because it causes global warming?…

News flash…global warming is normal…remember the Ice Age? (and no Mark T…Not the movie)

Oh…I want this one because it didn’t harm any guppies in Malaysia….give me a break!

I’m on Pactrice’s side here. When I was traveling, I asked them not to give me the envelope for my plane ticket. When I go grocery shopping, I use paper bags instead of plastic because paper holds more and has less of a future environmental impact. When I get coffee I reuse the sleeve, and when I have enough, I give them back to the coffee stand. I plan my trips so I don’t drive more then I need to.
And yes, I am concerned about the shrinking rain forests and the growing deserts. I don’t think global warming is strictly man-made, but we are not helping to increase our survival.

It doesn’t influence what I buy.
If everything was earth friendly, then everyone would then complain about the prices.

My hubby has ‘green’ media solutions as part of his media company and everything he has is earth friendly, right down to the ink on his business cards being soya based. This almost doubles the price…everything is more expensive.

There is also green washing…put a sticker on it to make people think it’s earth friendly when it’s not. Anything you buy from China, earth friendly or not sticker, is not earth friendly because of the fuel it cost to get here.

So something made locally in the USA not earth friendly may actually be more earth friendly than an earth friendly item from China …did that make sense?

You have to weigh the item with the emissions it took to get it made and to you before you can decide if it is earth friendly.

big thing going on now is the 100 mile diet where people try to buy only things within 100 miles to cut emissions.
Those people serious about it will live without many comforts and most shop at thrift stores.

That being said, if there are 2 identical items, one green, one not, I would read to see where it came from, what makes it greener than the other. If there’s truely no difference other than a ‘green’ sticker… then price will make my decision.
Green marketing is big business and it’s one that can easily fit into Mark’s previous thread of false claims.

But…we use bins for shopping etc.

In this case, I think it depends upon your values. As Mike T. mentioned, it’s occurring regardless, it’s up to us as individuals to decide how much we want to contribute to the solution or the problem.

Personally, this IS a big consideration for me and I believe a lot of folks, though, I am sure, on the flip side, it is not.

In fact, the idea I just recently submitted to ASOTV is made out of plastic. There was at least one sleepless night, time spent deliberating in a journal, and a candid conversation with a friend who shares my environmental values about whether or not I should submit this idea.

Ultimately, I traded the horse for the cow.

I decided the benefit of this product outweighs the evil plastic production because it has amazing health benefits for it’s end users. Ironically, the target market for that product exists because of global warming. So, I’m solving one problem at the expense of another, which, believe me, was not an easy dilemma to overcome.

If I am successful and am able to generate an additional income as a result of my inventions, my goal is to create environmentally friendly business and I DO plan to market in that same way. It’s a core value of mine and thankfully, I think it means a lot to a lot of other people as well.

Sorry kids…it’s all media hype and the marketing machine is leading us around by the nose here…..

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a tree hugger from way back…and I care about mother earth as much as the next guy…

But does it make a difference in the big picture?…NO….it is a force fed marketing ideology we use to justify a purchase –

So should I wrap my invention in green to get a few more sales?

You are so funny Mark…bringing up controversial subjects and watch the dogs all fight over who is right.

It has been on the news as a sort of study that the Toyota Preiss hybrid has great sales as it has become a status symbol by people in the upper class to become environmentally correct.

I also have listened to housewives talk about “going green” with the household products they buy. If they have a husband that makes alot of money they will spend extra.

I think being environmentally conscious surely will influence purchases more and more. People do like to be good and contribute good things sometimes even if no one will know…they know.

Ron Komorowski
Inventor of Handi-Straps
www.handi-straps.com

Hey buddy….that’s a really short post…who are you? – and what did you do with Ron?

I know what you’re saying Tania, as I find myself running a ridiculous amount of hot water into some peanut butter jars trying to figure out why wasting so much water in trying to get that peanut butter out of the jar so I can recycle the jar is worth it? lol. Still unsure – save the water or recycle that plastic jar? Water, right?

OMG Chrissy, I JUST had that conversation with my husband last week!lol

Too funny. I think I’m going for water in an effort to combine it with saving time so I can concentrate on recycling more other items? lol.

Get a dog – they love peanut butter and will lick the jar quite clean. :)

heyyyy…I am getting a dog some time soon
thanks Chere…great idea :-)

Ron, you’re absolutely right. I know Mark does this to get a rise out of everyone. ;~) He loves to see us debate.

<< But does it make a difference in the big picture? >>

I suppose it depends on what big picture you’re referring to.

When enough people participate in purchasing the products that are manufactured using green principles, it at least slows the degradation of the planet.

Green business is not necessarily cheap. I am impressed with the companies who take on the extra expense to find greener solutions vs. bowing to the man.

Why would people spend the extra money to manufacture green products if they didn’t live up to the benefits they tout or have any impact?

Oh Bridget…true, the debate is fun, but I really do it to get people to think. Too often inventors work in a vacuum – and to take an idea to a product means you have to think about issues like these.

The “green” movement in product development is largely a marketing exercise – much like the multi grain claims on food…all done for the benefit of the consumer to help you take a “want” product and transform it in your mind to a “need” product.

watching the video at www.storyofstuff.com may help you reconsider the benefits of going “green”

Paul,

I’m sure Annie is a very nice person. But since she didn’t do her film naked, I assume she values the clothing made by the “system” she has such a problem with…the same can be said for her makeup, her use of a camera and if I had to guess…I bet she even owns a car!

Although I’m sure she brings up some valid points, and we can all do much better at taking care of our planet – I can’t help but think her points could be better taken if they were not wrapped in fear mongering for the sake of getting an audience.

Do you think she has a computer made in one of those factories run by one of those corporations she whales on?

Really Paul, shouldn’t someone who criticizes the “process” not actually be using it?…..When Annie is living in a tree, growing her own food, and has forsaken the comforts of the products and processes she trashes…then maybe we should all listen to her.

Until then, she’s just another consumer perpetuating the problem….but then again…without the problem….we would never know who she was

Here’s my deal, being able to remember hard times my family had at one point….if going green means going back to a non-consumerism-type state, then why do these products cost so much? I mean, in most cases going green is cost-prohibitive, and yet it is based in simplicity and is meant to be a return to simplicity-maybe only 1 outfit a day for a week=7 outfits, a Sunday outfit, a work outfit, 3 pairs of shoes, dress shoes, casual shoes, work shoes, snow boots, computers that can actually be replaced via that one part only? kwis?

When needing the world to return to simplicity for the sake of the world, wouldn’t it be wise to ensure it was an attainable goal? What are the profits green companies aim for – similar to nongreen companies or do they take one for the team, i.e. less, to see their vision become a reality?

My mom has recently gone off on the Wal-Mart kick – I dunno, I think she watched the old expose on it or something, but she’s bashing the people who shop there, which surprises me because I know that if she was still the single 21-y/o mother of 3 kids under the age of 3 who decided she couldn’t drag us down to the welfare office not a single time after pimps asked her if she wanted to make easy money by becoming a prostitute, SHE would be shopping there simply because even the $5 she saved in 1 day on a very limited # of items, like 3, could keep her setup with gas to get to and from work for another day, or pay the sitter to watch her kids, or as a senior citizen trying to budget money to cover her meds, maybe she’ll be shopping there again, who knows.

I think we’ve all imagined a return to the basics, living off the land, etc., but the first thing that enters my mind with those thoughts is you better have a really good hiding spot from the government…..don’t you still have to find a way to pay for that land they let you call yours because without some electricity and a curling iron or makeup, I’m not bound to be hired at any job? LMAO.

It usually only influences me in regards to groceries. If there’s an organic something or other that is not too much more expensive than the non-organic, I will buy it.

I’m not really going along with the “green” movement, but if it’s logical to turn off the water when I’m brushing my teeth to save money (and water) – ok.

I remember getting a wake up call when I was visiting England years ago. I had a terrible time finding trash cans there. I had finished a can of soda on the street and just assumed I’d find a trash can at the corner or outside of a shop. I really had to search for one. The family that I stayed with had one bathroom sized trash can in their kitchen and that was it. They shopped at the local market and their items weren’t packaged up like fort knox, just wrapped in paper. It made me realize how much trash we create in the US and I was inspired to try to create less. I try not to be wasteful in general. My grandma was in the depression and her frugality has been passed down.

turing off taps, using the cloth shopping bags etc…being responsible is a way of life and people should do it.

Like Margaret I buy organic when available. Next Spring I have the plans all ready for an organic mini farm for my family. Not because I worry about emissions from transportation of my veges, but I worry about what the heck they put in my veges.
I love that fertilizer is oil based lol… I never knew that and it grosses me the hell out! That’s a whole different thread.

Anyway, I buy what I need and want and make sure all my electronic go to a Canadian dismantling company and not a scam place that ships it to Asian countries for children to dismantle for a few bucks.
I do my part, but I am not the one able to change the world. I find it funny when those government agencies and educators fly all over in their private jets and tell you it’s possible… not mentioning any names Al.

Mark,

I’m not buying into man is killing the planet theme, and there is a band wagon approach to marketing, so buyer beware is a saying that goes for any product.

Just finished Zogby’s “The Way We’ll Be” and conclude that it doesn’t matter, what you and I think (correct or not). The majority is thinking green is the way to go. Ride that wave or it passes you by, i.e. your product loses market share.

What about you….are you falling for that?

The Chinese didn’t fall for that and look what a mess they have made out of their environment. I think there is a lot we can do to clean up our factories even more than we have like more efficient motors, natural lighting, recycling water and other pollutants. There needs to be a balance. I don’t think we can reverse the effects of global warming overnight and shouldn’t spend billions we don’t have trying to do so.

Mark, I am with you – it’s all BS. Next thing you know – they will be trying to nationalize health care too.

lol, Michael, we have that in Canada. Sounds good on paper, but when people are really sick?

Canadian government sends them to the states for treatment, pays their apartment, food, car rental for months at a time for things like prostate cancer treatment ( most popular one I know of) because we cannot afford proper equipment with our free healthcare.

If the states did what Canada has done, then where would sick Canadians go for help? You Americans would also go into healthcare crisis, like us. Then what? We all fly to Europe for ‘real’ treatments? Keep your healthcare please…we need it! lol

Canadian government is so embarrassing…suspend parliment and have someone Equal to Barbara Walters being the one to carry out that decision.

sorry for that last part lol, just a little vent here….

LOL. So many people here Tania find your system really appealing – they can’t figure out who is telling the truth with the whole insurance deal.

I absolutley LOVE my recycled cloth, square, grocery bags – my only issue is remembering to snag them on my way out the door. lol. They are so roomy and accommodate so much more than the plastic, or even paper bags, and they fit in such a nice way into the back of my car – if you don’t want ’em to go green, I suggest them for convenience! lol.

I started my own mini garden last year – had so much of the items I planted I had to share with the neighborhood….so I created a slightly larger one this year – for some reason bees were down in numbers or something – I literally only got 1 green zuchinni, 1 yellow squash, no pumpkins, no cantaloupes, a few green onions, no cukes. Our raspberries didn’t even grow until October, and then it rained for 5 days straight molding them all. Was a bad year for gardening here everyone says. I’m trying to talk my husband into cutting down the half dead 30-year-old pine tree in the back yard that would be a perfect spot for a real big garden. Would love to learn how to do canning too, but that’s probably out there when all the kids are in school freeing up some time for me or something. I do it mostly it is affordable to do it yourself to ensure you know what you’re getting, but also because it saves money – I discard so many store-bought veggies/fruits that go bad before we get to eating them – it’s such a waste of money. I love homemade lemonade, but not at 50 cents a lemon and more for organic.

So what?…..what does all this mean to developing a product?….do we find some BS reason to make the “green” claim just to help people want to buy it?….or do we throw the BS flag on the play and keep marketing based on real value?

People in the know can spot a BS claim. People aren’t going to buy it if it costs a lot more than the non-green version, or rather I should clarify…..those who have to budget and pay attention to what they are spending won’t, which happens to be the majority of folks. Priced the same – sure, people would automatically feel better choosing the green product – more bang for the buck. But, if you are doing something particularly harmful, people also will just choose not to buy it.

Yes, If you can, make the claim real. If you can’t, BS it. From what I understand the only realy positive recycling is aluminum cans. Everything else is just for show. Paper companies do not wipe out rain forests, they grow their own trees. Sure plastic lasts a thousand years in land fills, but that’s an eye blink to the planet. If you are worried about fresh water move to St. Louis, about a billion gallons an hour flows past. I know there is real concern in desert areas of the world. But me conserving water is just stupid. George Carlin had it right. “The planet’s not in danger, people are.”

However, I have a different take on global warming. I think it is an interresting coincidence that the Earth has been experiencing a 20,000 year stable period in it’s weather. Isn’t that about how long man has been using fire worldwide? There is no doubt what we do effects the weather. We are just finally at the point of being able to consider and control the long-term effects. Don’t we want the right ones?

Let’s face facts…“green” is a marketing ploy…and we as consumers buy into it 100%

BUT…do we as producers?….as inventors and product developers do we really give a damn?…

We want our products on store shelves and if some marketing guy wants to slap a big green sticker on our product we’re not really going to care if it should be there or not….

Just make sure the money is Green!

Hmmm….Well, I have to admit that I agree with your comments regarding ‘Global Warming’…The climate changes we’re experiencing even now are within natural variability. In the early 70’s ‘Global Cooling’ was the consensus due to notable temperature declines starting around 1940 to 1980…By the 90’s temperatures appeared to have shifted and reversed and now ‘Global Warming’ has became the consensus. There is no scientific justification/evidence that we are, or could ever cause significant global climate change, yet, politicians – such as Al Gore – are being listened to, even though most of them have little to no knowledge or understanding of the science of climate and climate change. Isn’t it rather odd that a lot of these politicians have it all figured out regarding the exact causes of ‘Global Warming’, yet, scientific specialist in atmospheric science just can’t seem to make the connection…Interesting!?

As far as your view/attitude regarding the B.S. “Green” marketing ploy/movement and its imagined crisis/environmental impact on this planet maybe a bit reckless at best…But, then again, it is your thread and you are entitled to your opinion….

If the sticker shouldn’t be there, it shouldn’t be there. Frankly, you shouldn’t be able to steal the pride of those who do manage to make their products green or diminish their accomplishments. Going green is a good thing for those who can, no matter how you break it down.

I don’t consider choosing to buy nonchemically treated jammies for my kids, choosing to buy non-arsenic-treated wood for their playground, or choosing to avoid BPA-containing sippy cups for them buying into it at all. The only way I’m being had in these instances is if I’m being lied to since I do not have the ability to ensure I’m not, which is what your other thread touches on.

Mark,

It’s not a ploy if your product can rightly claim it’s recyclable, biodegradeable or takes less energy to produce or less engergy to transport. People are out there looking for products with less impact on the enviroment. Like stated earlier, you regonize that fact and ride the wave or choose to ingnore it. The final vote is with the consumer, like it or not they are choosing green.

Eddie,

Littering is not a green problem, it’s a stupid people problem. Unless everything is quickly biodegradeable in sea water those pictures will repeat. Ships just purge there garbage into the sea and if it floats it can make it to shore. That’s a crime in my eyes.

Carbon credit system is a crime too, for it’s just another tax, a way government controls what you can and can not do. I don’t want to limit growth, energy or life style to save the planet from man. I would like to see alternatives that work and can make it in the marketplace in a non-government funded way. Tax incentives are okay.

We can all see that there are some major environmental issues to deal with in our world….

What I don’t think we’re grasping is the fact that the media and marketing machines have taken this issue to such a level as to make it “fact” in the mind of the consumer.

In turn, the product development community has started to use this as a selling point on many products that simply should not be using it….

So the question still remains….would you use the green label on your product just to get more sales?….

Or would you design to the “green” standard knowing it was going to drive up your price point and cost you market share?

If it is a fact or not it is what is percieved by the consumer thus it is reality of the market. Deal with it or not, your choice.

Yes use a green label if your product can rightly claim “green” status.

Second question your premise is wrong –
“knowing it was going to drive up your price point and cost you market share”

Driving up production costs is one thing you could know in advance, but how do you make the leap that it will cost you market share when the polling and research done indicates consumers are looking for these types of products? And if you can keep your cost close to the competition, say a little bit more for going green, the consumer is evidently willing to pay the differance. Meaning more market share!

If going green the product cost less, than Duh.. yes.

If going green means that your twice as much cost to the consumer, well then no.

Hybrid cars costs about $ 5,000 more and people are lining up to buy. If they cost double, it would no be so.

So in the end it is a balance. Go green, consumers want it, but if it will cost more you need keep it close to the competitors or you price yourself out of the market.

This can not be covered by a blanket statement. It has to be weighed on a product by product basis.

Here’s an interesting view on CO2 emissions,renewable energy,fossil fuels etc.

http://www.withouthotair.com/download.html

Mark,

The answer to your question for me is maybe. My product is made from fabric. I would definitely consider making it with organic cotton components if that’s what would get more attention and sales. My product can easily go “green” so why not?? I guess I would jump on the bandwagon in this instance. And I do have to say that I do make it a consideration in some other product ideas I develop. People are into that right now and I want to make something that will sell.

Mark,
Your posting is provocative.
In researching a cover story for our March issue on kitchen innovations, many larger companies, including Clorox, are designing “green” products. Why? Because they’re responding to market demand. To be sure, greening up products is a marketing ploy for many. But I’m convinced, particularly in light of lead paint in toys and food contamination in China, that most consumers are interested in eco-friendly products. But then again, I’m a member of the media.

I love this “green” movement. In a rotten world of late where no one seemed to care; it surprised the hell out of me that people collectively really started to care about environmental pollution and the future of this place for others after they are gone.

It’s a beautiful thing and restores some faith for me in people as a mass. Green is cool, green will sell.

I think its about time people start to care, we as a world have done so much to ruin the environment with the thinking that it wont affect us. maybe it didnt, but now we are the ones getting hit and we are the ones who have to fix the problem. there is a lot of good technology out there for the taking and for using and it is up to us to use it and to find other ways to right all of the wrongs of the past. As far as marketing, I think it makes a difference, but should not be the only factor. If a product can be made ‘green’ without using more energy to produce and perhaps giving more work for americans at the same time, It should be marketed as such. If the energy required or the resources required to make a product biodegradable for example is more than that to make a non biodegradable product then it would be wrong to market it as ‘green’. this is one of those places you have to look at all angles to find out if it is really ‘green’ or if you are creating more evil than good.

There are a number of people out there – some reputable scientists included – who don’t buy into the Global Warming phenomenon.

Even if you are among them though, as others get at, as a marketer or inventor all that matters is your market, and whether or not they care. There is enough evidence out there indicating that they do.

Of course, determining exactly how important the environment is to your consumers relative to other factors like price, is important. And, convincing people that your invention is truly environmentally friendly can be more complicated than simply claiming that your invention is environmentally friendly. Thats true even when you have a product that truly is environmentally friendly.

Another great post Mark. I have really enjoyed the several issues you have brought up in the forums lately.

I don’t think it has anything specifically to do with global warming. the fact is that if you look around our landfills are overflowing, litter everywhere, air pollution is high, oil is going to run out eventually. whether there is global warming or cooling is of little signifigance, we still need to be more responsible with the environment. all you have to do is look around. I go fishing and find plastic all over the place, that will never break down. we need to stop this and start caring about our environment. So marketing green products which are truly green is wonderful.

Mark,
To answer your question, no – I would not put a green label on my product if it was not green.

Because I am interested in green consumerism, I tend to research the products I buy and typically, make purchasing decisions based on whether or not those products actually deliver on the benefits they tout.

From an ethical perspective (and only because environmentalism is, in fact, a value I cherish), I would not do it unless it were true.

Even recycling can create its own false sense of security regarding the actual problem of recycling causing its own environmental impact. It’s understood that recycling only represents a minor improvement over landfills and/or incineration of garbage…So, the false sense of security is that it makes people feel like they’ve accomplished something important in protecting the environment.

Bottled water is a perfect example of the attitude of what some might call entitled consumerism…Meaning, that people feel that it’s okay to purchase and use environmentally harmful products such as bottled water or even plastic diapers because they make up for it by recycling…Sounds a bit contradictory, but, I guess every little bit helps, huh!?

So what is green anyway?…that I use paper on my product so the consumer can recycle …but it takes 50% more fule to produce it?…is that Green?

Or maybe I just use the paper for the right to call it “Green” and then we’ll just forget about that extra fule….the consumer doesn’t need to know….and i’ll get the sale!

After all….the only true “green” in business is MONEY!

From the web….

The Rules of Green Marketing~
The first rule of green marketing is the first of rule of marketing: Focus on customer benefits—i.e., the primary reason consumers buy certain products in the first place. Keep in mind that environmental benefits are important to consumers, but they are not the primary reason for all but “deep green” consumers’ preferring one product over another; so treat them as good, value-added secondary benefits.

Next, keep in mind that for green marketing to work, it is important that customers…

Winning at Green Marketing~
In sum, when played by “the rules,” green marketing can lead to product improvements that can enhance marketability, improve overall performance, and become a potent new source of innovation. To prevent your greener products from winding up in the green graveyard, focus communications efforts on the primary benefits that your environmentally inspired technologies can support. Avoid the clichéd “babies, planets and daisies” that will conjure up the negative perceptions of the green products of yesteryear.

From an organizational standpoint, integrate environmental considerations into all aspects of marketing—new product development and communications and all points in between. This requires the support of cross-functional teams with marketers at the helm. The holistic nature of green also suggests that besides suppliers and retailers new stakeholders be enlisted, including educators, members of the community, regulators, and NGOs.

Finally, consider green as an ideal goal achieved though continuous improvement. Ask: In what ways can customers reduce environmental impacts during use? What is the next radical evolution of our product? In what ways might we offer a service rather than, or in addition to, a product?

“So what is green anyway”? I Don’t know!?

Wow…who knew there were “rules” to this green thing?

I recently this last summer organized my storage room, in which I had 4 old large computer monitors – the monsters of the day….I first tried placing them at the curb for the garbage pickers that find the junk of others as treasures, but they didn’t take them. I then called some local computer shops, and they didn’t want them. I called my disposal provider and asked what I should do with them since I heard it is illegal to put them in the trash…they said “Well, it is, but you can put them at the curb and we’ll take them anyway. You’d be surprised at what we take that we shouldn’t take.” I asked what they did with them, “Put them in the landfill.” We had a laugh, sort of, about how I thought the whole point was to NOT do that. I called the City, they had NO idea. I called 3 more contacts, and the last 1 said to try Goodwill. They said they would take them. I commented after all of that trying and said “Well, at least they’ll actually be used.” They said “Oh, no they won’t. We give them to Dell.” From there, I didn’t even want to know. lol.

See…I think we all really want to believe there is something behind the façade of the all and powerful “Green” movement, but I fear, too often the situation turns out like yours Chrissy. A great front end, make the news, get me elected hype – with nothing on the back end.

When you read ‘Green” on a package most of the time you’re reading a marketing statement designed to make you feel more comfortable and to nudge you toward the product and away from a competing product that may not use that claim…..it’s really that simple.

Although I’m sure there are exceptions, most manufacturers could not care less.

I went to visit my friend in rural NY. She and her neighbors pay for private trash and recycling removal. One day she happened to catch the garbage man picking up her recycling and dumping it in the trash truck. She was pretty upset because she takes the time to separate it out and pays for the service. She called and they said “the recycling truck won’t come out that far.” She reminded them that she has been paying for this service. They wouldn’t refund her money or require the recycling truck to come out. So now she and her husband have cancelled service and have to make a trip to the dump/recycling center.

Then there’s my neighborhood where 4 different trucks come out on garbage day to pick up different types of trash – garbage, recycling, yard waste, and large items.

It really makes you think how “green” that is. My friend has to use extra gas making the haul to the dump. And just think of the fuel used for the 4 different trucks that come out every week. It seems there are almost always trade-offs.