Doesn’t bother me, but just ask EE. It won’t keep me from showing up at your front door- just for a little lookie loo!

I like pie :-)

I honestly don’t know how to answer this question, because I believe I know where my talents are and know when to back off,allowing others to bring in theirs make the product better and successful.

If I didn’t trust them to do what’s best, I wouldn’t be there. What makes them money, makes me money…and puts my product on the shelf :-)

interesting mark…i don’t know if you are posting this to stimulate dialogue on the forums, or if you really feel this way…

Mark, I can’t blame you for the attitude. Sometimes licensees are such a pain in the neck. Just shut up, take the money, and let me do my job. On the other hand, some inventors are quite empowered. Turns out the best inventors are more likely to be empowered. If you want the privelege of profiting from their best work, you’d better be willing to listen to what they have to say. In the end, an inventor and a licensee have to know the value of what they’re getting. The greater of what you’re getting, the value, the more you should listen. The greater the value of what you’re giving, the more you should talk. Ah, but that’s the same with anything. Isn’t it?

Actually, everything you’ve written there sounds quite reasonable, considering that your client (Lil’ Inventor Boy) more than likely, didn’t negotiate an acceptable licensing agreement with you. The fact that you may want to make his invention out of cheese could prove to be extremely beneficial, if it were in fact, an actual ‘better mousetrap’…Aside from that, it could prove to be very poor business decision for both you and Lil’ Inventor Boy. But, hopefully, Lil’ Inventor Boy included a guaranteed minimum income when negotiating this licensing agreement with you, just in case you did decide not to run with it and/or fail to sell any product at all.

I could be mistaken, but just going by the general impression of this thread, it sounds like Lil’ Inventor Boy really didn’t get a fair/reasonable licencing agreement and maybe he should have known when to withdraw from the negotiations, especially if he saw no real advantage in continuing with it….‘He who can walk away from a deal controls it’.

Then again, if he chose to relinquish total control of the invention/product submission to you…Disregard the above!

Ok…so Inventor boy is just that….an inventor. As a product manufacturer it makes sense that I would know more about how to develop that invention into a real product.

So what’s the big deal?, take your contract and if I need you I’ll call you…and I’ll send you a check when we sell something.

What’s the big deal?

Alrighty then…You convinced me…Where do I sign?

  
Wait a minute…I’ll sign as long you agree not to sell my product at some artificially low price to your associates, just to try and screw me out of my due royalty income…Promise?!

Where would the product manufacturer be without the invention to build a product out of?

Where would the product manufacturer be if the inventor licenses his/her invention to a competing product manufacturer?

Word gets around.

Oh Eddie….I won’t screw you….I’m a manufacturer – you can trust me… After all not only am I going to make your dream come true –I’m going to make you rich!

As for your participation in the product development process…

Not my fault you never took the time to learn what it’s like in my world…I didn’t come into your basement and pretend to be an expert in “Tinkering”. Why should you come into my board room and pretend you know what you’re doing? …sure you may have an idea or two that isn’t downright stupid…but in the end – I’m in charge now.

Just go on home and we’ll call you when we have something to show you…or if it makes you feel better you can walk away and I’ll take the next guy on my list of about a zillion products people send me each week

You choose….

“Mark The manufacturer”, I trust you. And if all goes well with this process, you’ll have a lot more business. Did I mention I am a content contributor to a major international product development site, and friends with many others in this industry. Did I mention that I know Mike Drummond and Louis Foreman, the editor and publisher of Inventors digest? If all goes well, you’ll get a lot of good exposure. :)

                Why so serious, Mark?!

I’m just playing the ’s Advocate, as you have in most of your threads…To try and invoke open discussion of your ‘Soup of the Day’ subject matter…Nothing more, nothing less.

To be honest with you, this is one of the reasons I normally don’t engage in these strictly ‘opinionated’ discussions. I’m just addressing some of the concerns from the view point of Lil’ Inventor Boy, nothing personal against you….Personally, I believe I would trust you.

Carry on…..

Removed…Double posting

error deleted

“To be honest with you, this is one of the reasons I normally don’t engage in these strictly ‘opinionated’ discussions. I’m just addressing some of the concerns from the view point of Lil’ Inventor Boy, nothing personal against you….Personally, I believe I would trust you”

Thanks Eddie….I guess

It does bother me that you feel like you can’t engage in the topic though – it’s just opinions about things related to inventing. At the end of the day it’s just about helping people understand the topics

Mark is correct in his position and attitude. You will find licensees that have actually that attitude and do not want any involement with the Inventor once the deal is struck. I understand this attitude because a number of Inventrs if given the option would micromanage every move the company made and in the majority of cases do more harm than good. As we have discussed in various threads just because you came up with a marketable item does not make you an expert at marketing it and running a business. Yes, you are taking a chance with anyone you license your product to hoping they make the right choices and gain you and them the highest margin of profit. That said they are also taking a chance on you and putting their cash, staff and reputation behind your product. If it sinks they lose a large investment.
Then there are other companies that ask for further involvement and keep you in the loop because you have proved to them that you understand their role and yours and they see your attitude and creative talents as an assest. This is way I have companies contact me asking for input on my products as well as sending me wish lists for potential products. They know I take my role seriously and want to see both of us profit. To many Inventors are more worried about who has control and not about what will make the product its best and more marketable.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

“It does bother me that you feel like you can’t engage in the topic though”

Actually, I didn’t say I “can’t”, I said I “don’t”…

Either way….why not?

I don’t have a problem with handing the design details over to the manufacturer. They have to make a profit for me to make one and should know their business better than I do. However, I want to be sure they produce good quality. That is something I should research before signing with them. I don’t need to be a business guru to know that a quality product will sell better and live longer in the market than a cheap piece of junk. I’ve seen many examples of good ideas ruined by bad designs. This product will be in my portfolio and my reputation goes with it into production. I do and should care about the design quality.

I read a comment someplace from and inventor who said “I have to keep pushing my licensee”……I could not help but think if someone I had a license deal with an inventor and they tried to “push” me I would push back.

If they didn’t like it…well, like I said, I have no shortage of inventors looking for product developers who are willing to invest in their ideas.

Sounds harsh maybe…but it’s the big bad ugly world of business

Yeah,Mark S,researching the companies to see what they do with their products seems a cure to this dilemma.Research,Research,Research-again.

As to the value of new product ideas,inventors as a valuable resource,should not be berated,contingent on their rigour.

Apart from a long and distinguished history,googling ‘Research and Development’or similar,identifies R&D as a vital activity,and also a very expensive one.

A company will license ideas that they like,and that fit their product range,and therefore their distribution and sales network,and their production facilities.

So if an inventor comes to them with an idea they like,bearing in mind the above,they will not be starting from scratch,and a successful new product boosts existing products,and profits.

I think inventors need to be realistic,but also realistic about the possible value of their ideas.

The market demands new/better/improved products.Companies that do not respond to this demand,can go under,with all their production,distibution,sales apparatus.

The inventor deserves more respect.Their spark makes possible a fire.

If inventors think that their efforts are secondary or less,that’s the way it’s going to stay.

There is good reason to think that their contributions are worth a lot more.

Sounds like the big bad ugly world of attitude and poor communication skills as well,Mark.

“I think inventors need to be realistic,but also realistic about the possible value of their ideas.”

Adam…how does an inventor even begin to know the value of his/her idea?….they all want the company to tell them it’s worth millions of dollars….when the fact is….95% of them are dumb as dirt and have NO chance at getting to the market for any number of reasons.

Oh, contraire mon frere….

The inventor is the brains of the process and without them, the manufacturer would have no product!

If my product idea is HOT and I come to you, the manufacturer with my HOT idea, then I just gave your sorry ass shop the break they’ve been waiting for.

I am the brains and you are the brawn!

If you don’t perform as I wish and what is stipulated in my license agreement, then I take my protected idea to the next manufacturer down the road who will be more than willing to strike a deal with me.

My goal as an inventor is to strike a licensing deal with a manufacturer that suits my needs and that costs me very little as far as time an money to see my product on the shelves.

You are right that inventors are a dime a dozen…

But inventors with a GREAT idea are a rarity!

Manufacturers are a dime a dozen and they all produce the same outcome. Some just may be cheaper than the others.

Adam you said " If inventors think that their efforts are secondary or less,that’s the way it’s going to stay."

I think actually it is the other way around. Most Inventors think to highly of their product and are to demanding not knowing what it takes to get a product from conception to market.
It is real easy to see the unrealistic expectations a large portion of Inventors have when they refer to their idea in one of the following

It will sell millions! (and they have not done any research into their market)

Everyone will have to have one.

A company would be stupid not to buy it from me.

It will only take them a month to have it made and in all the stores. (This persons idea would require several molds and electronic circuits be made to fit the molds.)

I should get at least $100,000 for an advance.
(this idea involved a pacifer)

They will make it exactly the way I designed it or they won’t make it at all. (They are still looking for a company)

Once they see it they will be begging me to let them sell it. (Still no bites)

I will have companies fighting to be the one to sell it. (He has been turned down by every company he has approached)

They said my idea infringes on another companies patent, but I think they should still go for it.

These are comments I have had Inventors say during conversations about their ideas. I even had one Inventor tell me I would have to pay him $10,000 just to see his invention (which I didn’t ask to see in the first place). I declined, but did ask if he had anyone interested in producing his invention. His response was “Not yet, but anyday now” Last I heard he still has his invention and no prospects. That was four years ago.
It is this attitude that causes companies to shy away from Inventors and be very particular who they deal with.
As I stated in another thread a company I first contacted said they would not look at outside ideas. They did everything in-house. The lady I spoke with did tell me to keep in touch and let her know what I was up to. After 8 months of occasional “How are you doing” emails she saw my latest invention the Pebble Peeler. She liked it and said they would be interested in seeing some ideas from me. I picked one that I thought really fit their line of unique products. They liked it and licensed it. They asked for more, which I sent and have picked up three more.
All of this came about because I have realistic expectations, didn’t demand huge advances, and understand that a August 09 release is an aggressive schedule on their part. This going from my sell sheet to a finished on the shelf product in 8 months. They make quality products and sell internationally.
They are still not open to other Inventors submitting ideas just yet, but I am hoping to get them to open that door. A lot will depend on the type of response they get from the first few they may let in the door. Would you ease their fears or justify their fears?

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Ya..whatever Patrice….you are dreaming lady. I assure you the inventor will do what we want.

And thank us!

Mark, if my product is stupid and you are the only manufacturer that will even entertain my idea, then yeah I should take whatever offer you give me.

But if my idea is truly a great idea, then I’ve got my choice of the THOUSANDS of manufacturers in the US and outside of the US to make my AWESOME product!

Why should I choose YOU?

You being the manufacturer, know when you see a million dollar idea fly accross your desk and it just happened with my invention.

Are you going to mess that up by giving me crappy terms and trying to jerk me around? HELL NO!

You may try but than when I tell you no thanks I’m sure you have plan B waiting in the wings to offer my poor lil inventor soul don’t you?

Mark, if my product is stupid and you are the only manufacturer that will even entertain my idea, then yeah I should take whatever offer you give me.

But if my idea is truly a great idea, then I’ve got my choice of the THOUSANDS of manufacturers in the US and outside of the US to make my AWESOME product!

Why should I choose YOU?

You being the manufacturer, know when you see a million dollar idea fly accross your desk and it just happened with my invention.

Are you going to mess that up by giving me crappy terms and trying to jerk me around? HELL NO!

You may try but than when I tell you no thanks I’m sure you have plan B waiting in the wings to offer my poor lil inventor soul don’t you?

Oh ya….how many cold calls does an inventor make to get just one company to pay attention?

Sure….if you have the next light bulb I’ll be able to tell…..and I’ll find a way to get you to give me your rights….. and my guess is oh smart one….you will have no idea what the deal even means by the time I get done with the legal talk…..I will ALWAYS win this game……at least until you take the time to make yourself smart enough about how my world works…..

You can be incurably naïve…….THOUSANDS….ya ok…go wit that one

You are right that you might be able to fool me with your legal talk, but I don’t think you’d be able to fool my lawyer…which is who I would have with me, duh!

Well then…I say we let them fight it out and we can go get a beer….

I would have to decline your offer.

I couldn’t possibly hold a conversation with someone as incredibly intelligent as yourself.

Ya….I see your point…maybe you could bring a tutor to help elevate you to that “incredibly” intelligent level,,,,

Damn I’m funny

You used the “million dollar” phrase again. Read my post above. I will always agree that there are million dollar ideas out there, but the problem is that the majority of people out there all think theirs is the million dollar idea. That is where the problem comes in. If only 3% of all patented items make it to market what percentage of them are million dollar ideas? The 97% that didn’t even get to market have spent thousands, mortgaged homes, lost families, ruined their credit and are in debt that will take them a lifetime to pay back.
The 3% that made it to market are all fighting for their share of the market dollar. Thay can’t all be million dollar ideas. That is the reality of inventing that mark, Ron and myself are trying get everyone to understand. we are not saying dump your dreams, we are saying go into it with your eyes wide open and don’t make a fools leap when there are resources to help you recognize most obstacles.

Actually, the real reason I couldn’t join you at the bar is because I don’t think they allow shovels in there…

I would need one just to dig through the mounds of BS that flies out of your mouth!

hehe

Amen brother….

Roger,

I am trying to defend the ‘lil inventor here and you are arguing points that are in the defense of Mark R.’s theory that those who license should just take their 3% and go on their merry way.

Aren’t you offended by this?

Isn’t the licensing route your whole method of bringing products to market?

Oh Patrice….I’m hurt…I think it’s because yo don’t have a tutor…:)

A smart Inventor would find a way to sell the mounds of BS to a company. : )

Who said merry way?….I said shut your pie hole and sit in the corner

It’s not the selling of the product ideas that is the issue here Roger…

Mark is basically saying that the inventor that chooses to license his products is taking the cowardly route in inventing and should just run along and praise the all might manufacturer for saving their sorry little ass.

HEY…I didn’t say anything like that….What I am saying is if you are not going to take the time to learn to swim BEFORE you jump in the pool….don’t blame me if you drown.

And don’t rely on ME to drag you out of the water

Patrice, read my first post in this thread. I am agreeing with Mark from his position as the manufacturer. His attitude is exactly what you will run into at a number of companies. As well as the ones that want further input. Mark and I are not trying to paint a rosy picture that every company will treat you fairly or that you don’t have choices when dealing with companies. We are pointing out real life situations Inventors will be faced with once they make it to the step of getting a license deal.
I have turned down deals that I did not like from companies knowing full well that it means going back to cold calls and starting all over again. I don’t jump at the first deal and take it no matter what it is. I llok at it from a business sense and see if it is to my benefit to take it or move on. mark is giving the members here a taste of what they can expect if they go in unprepared for it.

That is NOT what you said at all. You said that once I sign that license deal and get my 3% that I should SHUT MY PIE HOLE and go in the corner because you ARE GOING TO MAKE THE PRODUCT YOUR WAY AND I DON"T HAVE A SAY!

You are going to change the name, design it your way and call all the shots right?

Unfortunately Roger, I think Mark doesn’t put much faith into the licensing method of bringing your products to market.

I think he’s trying to show people that there is a better way.

That’s right…i will call the shots because I know more than you…because I’ve been in the big pool for years, and you are just walking over from the baby pool with your floaties on….

QUIT THAT!….you keep trying to tell me what i’m saying….

Licensing is just one way to get a product to market…there are others as well….some better some worse

Mark, I think your message is unclear at this point.

Are you trying to say that the manufacturing method is better than the licensing method because you have more control of the process and will gain a higher profit….

Or…

Are you saying that licensing is a great method of doing business as long as you are educated and experienced. And as long as you have those two traits up your sleeve, there is absolutely no reason for you to jump ship and try to make the products yourself right?

EITHER WAY IS FINE….Just learn to swim before you jump in either pool…..

Lets take this as an example. This is what I originally sent. They loved it and wanted to license it.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/en_images/user-1878

After they started making prototypes they wanted further input from me to add more playability to the product. That is where the catapult action came into play. They could have gone with the original idea or keep me out of the loop completely, but they didn’t because they saw that I could add value to their engineering team and that I was a team player wanting the same thing a final product that will make us both money. Not every Inventor is willing to see their baby changed from its original format. I was and this is the result. A better game for the consumer and a better chance at a bigger market for me.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/en_images/user-1874

Well thanks for clearing that up for me Mark.

I always thought you were leaning toward the manufacturing method and that you can make so much more money that way than a lousy 3%, but my bad…both are equally good methods and both will get you to the finish line just as quickly as the other and with the same amount of money in your pocket.

Well then, I choose the licensing method because it’s WAY WAY WAY less work than manufacturing and it’s much cheaper!