@Peter – The next time I was in the air AFTER the accident was a Commercial round trip to San Diego & back in 2007. I flew Commercially once in 2008, and in a homebuilt TEAM Airbike last year as an anniversary gift. (it had a BRS installed though, or I wouldn’t have done it)

I don’t push my luck anymore.

Jesus Frank!
I wonder if you still fly after that accident?

Peter
www.griffongliders.com

Amazing photograph, Frank. You know what you’re talking about, that’s for sure!

The point being, build something that will effectively demonstrate the claims and let that be the pitch.

Aviation subjects and aircraft safety devices strike a passionate chord with me because on August 26 1988, the good Lord allowed me to survive such a tragedy.

So Frank, exactly what are you trying to say? Ha! If that doesn’t work perhaps someone can find a link to the bullet-proof vest designer who shot himself. Enough time wasted here. Build it! Build it and they just might come!

@Frank… Awesome story and videos.

perrytheinventor.com

Peter; here’s a little story about a fellow who identified a problem through a near fatal personal experience:

Prior to 1975, few had attempted to implement the idea to design a parachute for an aircraft, even though it had been talked about for nearly a century. In that year, Boris Popov of Saint Paul, Minnesota, survived a 400-foot fall in a collapsed hang glider. “As I fell, I became most angry at my inability to do something,” Popov explained. “I had time to throw a parachute. I knew they existed but they hadn’t yet been introduced to the hang gliding community.” This event led Popov to invent the whole-aircraft parachute system and to found Ballistic Recovery Systems (BRS) in 1980.

The “stuff shirt” aviation community was a hard nut to crack so Popov and a fellow by the name of Jim Handbury hatched a plan to demonstrate the effectiveness of the BRS; Handbury took a Quicksilver ultralight up one day at a fly-in while several of the BIG NAMES in the industry were in attendance…. in the breast pocket of his flight suit he had a pair of wire cutters, which he used to systematically CUT the wing support cables, causing the wing to fail! During the violent spiral that it caused, people on the ground watched in horror because they were about to see a deadly crash… suddenly there was a “BOOM”, and a parachute almost instantly inflated over the stricken Quicksilver, and it floated gently to the ground.

Guess what, the Stuff Shirts were SOLD!!! Today, BRS’s are almost a standard on ultralights and come as standard equipment on the Cirrus airplanes!

Oh the lives they have saved too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a8cntPdRtk&...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXQKaxp6Rlk&...

@Peter

If you have all of what you say then the next step is to begin making a small production run of the objects and selling them. Usually, you’ll have 6 – 12 months before people begin to copy you. By that time you can get your brand name recognized and establish yourself as the leader in what you sell.

But it takes a big push to do it. You need to have the website with photos of the product, trade shows where you have your product on display and a real marketing and sales effort.

The project is not far enough along to get the interest of the people you want to meet.

If I were you I’d put up the money to build the first production unit and begin selling off that unit. Take orders and a deposit on credit cards. That way people can get their money back if you do not deliver. You can use the orders to arrange investment or financing.

I wrote a description of how I do this is a book I am working on. It is too long to post here. If you want a copy, I’ll send it to you.

You will be better off if you shift your thinking from “why won’t people invest” to “how do I make people want to buy my products”. Once you do this you will have investors fighting to get meetings with you. IMHO.

perrytheinventor.com

@Perry:
I have a company
I have a working lab model
I have indisputable and visible concept proof – it literally works – it flys for Gods sake :-)
I have a business plan
I have a website (yeah its ugly)
I have the knowledge and experience in finances and manufacturing.

What I don’t have is:
- money for patent filings and production start
- regional and country dealers

Thanks for your advice anyway. I appreciate it.

Peter
www.griffongliders.com

Peter, yes, the word is GAMBLE. People want to see a track record.

From your posts it does not seem like you have experience in manufacturing and finances. If you had manufacturing experience (running a manufacturing company) you’d be able to begin the process and make the first prototypes. The prototypes are needed to get the ball rolling.

On the other hand if you had finance experience you could start a corporation and begin wooing investors. This is also a viable way to begin the process. But you need the business structure first… to get the money. It does not work the other way around.

Without a business plan, executive board, prototypes, manufacturing projections and etc… your offer is considered, by many, to be a major gamble.

The casino has a track record of paying out jackpots. If you had a track record of even one project you’d be able to get the meetings that would potentially lead to funding.

With that said, I still think the advice you’ve been offered in this forum is on target. Make some toy/scale models to prove your idea works. And then build interest from there.

You are in a typical situation that many inventors find themselves in. They have an idea but little else. It hampers them in succeeding. If you believe in your idea, my first suggestion is to run a Patent Search and see if it really is new. If it appears that you can get a strong patent you will have some ammunition to go after some money and more incentive to build prototypes. If however the idea is not patentable you will be able to decide what to do next.

A good patent search should run you about US$500. Well worth the investment if you ask me.
;-)

perrytheinventor.com

@Frank thanks for your support and constructive suggestions. I see you can clearly understand my problem and aviation business in general. :-)

I will try to present my project to some aircraft companies in the neighborhood but I am afraid they will not sign the NDA. What bothers me I know some of them are in business trouble because they sell expensive aircrafts that few people can afford to buy these days. This project could give them a necessary “fuel” to go trough this recession but they are not prepared to invest in anything. They rather go bankrupt.

Will see anyway…

Keep your fingers crossed. If I get the deal you have a box of beer. :-)

@Perry: What gamble? Please. People don’t want to invest 100 EUR – 1000 EUR in solid business projects but hey can spent a fortune in casino and lottery tickets they know almost 100% they will lose their money. 300.000 EUR is of course somewhat a lot of money but even this could be divided in small (acceptable loss or profit) shares. :-)

Peter
www.griffongliders.com

Peter, you are asking a person to take a big gamble on you. Unless they are related to you few if any will do it. When we invest we don’t want you learning on our dime. We want to know your chance of pulling off the project is pretty high. Right now you have drawings and plans. But that is a long way to a working and profitable company. Even if your invention works it does not mean your company will make a profit. You have too many unknown’s in your equation.

I agree with Luke, and suggest you begin making toys. Build small models and move up from there. Frank had a good idea above but I don’t think you are there yet. My suggestion would be to start with toys and scale models. Then move to where Frank suggested you go with the experimentation and crashing the prototype to prove its worthy of investors.

perrytheinventor.com

What experience do you have in the aviation industry that would make a potential funder believe you know how to execute a plan like this, let alone design a groundbreaking aircraft? You’re quoting a 31.25% profit margin per unit on sales of 10k units in the US. Are those enormous margins due to ad revenue? Who will be able to read ads on a 2m space 2000 ft off the ground? Over what period will these 10k units be sold? I would be suprised if there are 3k (new) powered gliders sold every year in the US during a DECENT economy. These are just softball questions you would no doubt be asked assuming you got in the door of a VC firm. The main point is that no one will, or should, take you seriously until you have a functional prototype. I’m not sure I understand your rationale of not needing funding once you have a prototype.

I’m guessing you’ve posted this elsewhere before, and so have heard similar responses. Perhaps you can build a powered scale model and market it to the indoor remote control community. A small (5-6inch), slow flying, controllable glider would be very popular.

Griffon,

Have you contacted the major hang glider manufacturers, like Aeros, Airborne, Airwave, Avian Hang Gliders, Fexamerica, Finsterwalder, Flight Designs, Icaro, La Moutte, Moyes, Northwing, Seedwings INC., Swift – Aeriane, Up Hang Gliders, and Wills Wing?

There is an outside chance you may be able to locate one of their engineers who will look your idea over. I realize you are hesitant about revealing the design, but at some point you’ll have to because no one is going to invest in something they can’t see/evaluate. You should have a journal on the design, with dates, so you can proove you’re first to invent, but also have them sign an NDA.

The beautiful thing about a prototype is, you can attend Experimental Aircraft fly-in’s and demonstrate its unique qualities, or at the very minumum, have a 1/1 mockup for others to see.

Your story reminds me of Michel Colomban, who had designed what was basically a big R/C plane that people could fly in… he spent years trying to get companies to take him serious, but none did until he shows up with a flyable example (which he discovered was fully aerobatic through his flight test program), the beautiful little Cri-Cri", that was in the early 70’s, today there’s hundreds flying around the world.
Cri-Cri video

Griffon, I wasn’t meaning to shut you down, just let you know there is a lot more work to do before you are likely to get financing.
Do some searching around this site and you can find lots of great advice on things you can do yourself with very little money.
Just how good is your model? Was it created using software for designing aircraft? Are you an Aeronautical Engineer? I am not, but some here are. Maybe you can back up your claims. Your website looks like just some fancy renderings and a nice logo. You might consider adding some test result data to add credibility. Maybe a short resume’ about the designer’s qualifications.

I made my calculations of productions costs and flying capabilities on working lab model. This is a standard procedure in aircraft design. Once I build a real flying prototype that gets DHV certification I really don’t need investors any more. I can make sales without them. The problem is I need to save my frame and wing design before anyone can see it. I don’t trust anyone except legal papers but they costs a lot.

I agree with you Mark. I will probably have to forget this project as it looks like no one is going to invest in it anyway and I surely will not give it away for few bucks.

Peter
www.griffongliders.com

Sorry to be the one to have to tell you this Griffon, but you are putting the cart before the horse. No one is going to give you big money for an idea like this without a working prototype.
Market plans with sporting events and kids events all presume significant sales. You have to start with a product, not just an idea.
You also need to steer clear of unsubstantiated claims. If you haven’t built a working prototype, you haven’t completely designed it so you don’t know how much it will cost, how fast it can be built, or how safe it is. These are all just conceptual.
Get over your concerns about having your work stolen, get legal advice. Build that prototype!

Thanks for your answers guys. First le me apologise for my English. Second please understand my frustration as it is genuine:

I wanted to fly several years ago but I couldn’t because everything available on the market was extremely expensive, old or even dangerous. As a man with disability I couldn’t use just anything available. I can ride a bicycle with one leg, a moped and even drive a car but I couldn’t takeoff or land with what was available. So while searching for suitable and affordable alternative I started learning about sport aviation and designing some solutions for us more “easy rider” oriented people. I made some serious lab tests of my own and after two years of intensive research I decided that hang gliders was the most safe way to go.

My innovation revolve around two main features:

- The frame:
Ordinary hang gliders have A frame, mine have “OTTO” frame (dedicated to the Otto Lilienthal). The frame gives my hang glider the capability to endure higher positive and negative G loads than ordinary frame. Because of the frame my hang glider can endure up to 8G so you are safe to do practically anything you want in the air. The frame is a small revolution in itself as it can be applied to any other sport aircraft.

- Airfoil and wing design:
In combination with “OTTO” frame I have designed a wing that is simple and cheap to build but also very flight efficient and extremely safe. It take approximately 50 hours to build normal flexible wing hang glider. Mine rigid wing hang glider can be build in 24 hours with the same or even lower production cost. The whole hang glider can be dismantled for easy storage and transportation.

So here are my problems:

I need founds for OTTO frame and wing design patent. I just can’t build my version without risking that my work will be stolen. Also I need founds for DHV certification, official test prototype, first production and basic marketing. I could cover all with about 300.000 EUR.

@Frank: Yes there are a lot of concepts out there but mine is kind of “Ford T” production revolution. Basically a solid and innovative production platform upon to build all other future variants. Also I have prepared “360 degree” business concept involving all target audiences with sport events and corporate promotion. I even found the way to promote low altitude safe flying for kids (14 years and up).

I think I am not exaggerating when I say that there is a good money that investors can make with this project. I am convinced that only in USA we could sell more than 10.000 of my hang gliders for as low as 3.200 EUR that is about 10.000.000 EUR net profit. That is not small amount of money or is it?

I apologise again for my English and initial post.

Peter
www.griffongliders.com

A formal business plan including in depth market research might not be a bad place to start. Like Frank said, a little info. on the glider might be helpful as well. To be painfully honest, I would also suggest you reconsider acting like you are doing people a favor by letting them invest in your business. Also, did you play pro ball in Slovenia?

I wish you all the luck on your journey. Just as a personal observation and imo , you might want to stop using the simile “like curing cancer” anytime you are trying to express your frustration. Some people may misinterpret and possibly take offense. (This is NOT a flame, just an opinion :) )

Hi Peter,