http://www.idsketching.com/

Great find Greg Rotz! Neat site.

This is a great thread! Thank you…

After thirty or so years of doing computer graphics, I received a graphics tablet last year along with ArtRage on my birthday. I like it for “doing art”, it really is focused on making itself as artist friendly and as close to a simulation of physical materials as it can.

That makes it fairly neat, but loses out on tools like vectors and curve fitting and such you get with other drawing programs. If you want a straight line, you have to place a virtual ruler on your drawing and use it; etc.

PaintShop has been my mainstay for the last 10+ years. And trueSpace for 3d modelling (not so much for engineering accurate.)

I’m spending some time on AutoDesk Inventor during my 30 day free trial. After years of beating my head against the wall with CAD packages, I finally “get it.” Inventor wants me to think about creating as an engineer. Things start as primitives and are shaped to what they need to be. As I spend time with it, I believe it’s going to make me much more “manufacturing” aware of my designs.

As to the original: is paper drawing dead?
After finding this site yesterday:
http://www.idsketching.com/

I’m going to say No; I want some new drawing toys!

Anyone try ArtRage or SketchBook with their tablets yet???

Glad to hear Mom is still doing well….Angels we have amongst us, just need to notice.

Nite Walt…Imagine the possibilities…..

lol! How’d you know? He just laughed when I was explaining it to my mom. I was telling her about how much fun it was and how I had to figure out what all it could do and he said, “You should have just asked me.”

Glad you like it Jane! I still have not mastered it but the support and tutorials are great. It unlocks your mind with possibilities and just fun creativity.

Your son might take it over ya know…….and then he can be the tutorial! LOL

A +
I’m not a geek, so I was doubtful. I had to do the tutorial, play the games, get used to the pen and use the “help” tab. I really am having trouble leaving it alone now! It’s really cool. I didn’t even know these things existed… and were affordable.

Jane, I’m so new to gadgets that I tend to hem and haw sometimes for years before I decide to spend money…(don’t do credit cards) but I have always wondered about graphic pens…because I love to draw and worry that I wouldn’t be able to make it work right…

So do you really like it and feel comfortable with it? What grade would you give it?

Just thought I’d let you know how it’s going with my new toy— the Wacom Bamboo Pen graphic tablet. I got it online at Office Depot for about 67.00.

LOVE it! I used to use just printer paper, sketch and sketch, trace and re-sketch until I got something close to what I wanted. Then I had to scan it and save it. I couldn’t edit it easily with the programs I had.

This thing came with Corel Painter Essentials 4 and has dozens of textures and tricks to play with. And you can erase any smudge or boo boo very easily and precisely. You can save it, take parts of an image and place in another image and even use watery washes over ink. You can paint from photos too. Just LOTS of cool stuff. If you like to draw, I think you would enjoy figuring it out.

I didn’t think it cost too much. I just plugged it into my USB port and it was ready to go. My son thinks it looks cool, but he hasn’t tried it yet. The pen can be used as a mouse too, and he really liked that.

Thanks again, Penster!!

I agree with you about paper Frank. I don’t have a clue what all the technical names or terminology of any of the tools or programs mentioned above are. And I also don’t have the time to learn very much about very many of them. And likely as with most computer technology, it is ever changing. And lastly I know that I can not afford any of it. And I wish I could draw better than Robert. I can carve but I also can’t draw worth a darn.

RDhux… I don’t think you are being too technical at all. The devil is always in the details. So please, feel free to give us those details. If some find it boring they can skip, but for the rest of us seeking information we love it.

Nice work Frank… I love mechanisms. ;-)

As Robert said, I don’t think paper drawings will ever go away, infact, I KNOW they won’t as long as I’m alive, and I’m teaching three of my grandsons so maybe they will carry on the tradition.

I do major modifications (scratchbuilding) of plastic scale models I am commissioned to build, and the hting about that is there are no “instruction sheets”; so I illustrate the processes. The “plan” comes in my mind and I draw it out to see if it will be workable, for example, I was contracted to do a 1/48 CH-47 Chinook helicopter last year and the client wanted a “working rotor system”…. not motorized, but made so if he turns the blades on the FWD pylon, the AFT blades will respond by turning the opposite direction. (contra-rotating) I devised a “drive-shaft” system that was linked to each rotorhead by springs and build a mock-up to test it. It worked, but the “lag” created by the springs put the rotors out of phase, so back to the drawing board. (or paper in this case) I then illustrated a shaft & gear system, built a mock-up, and it worked perfectly, so that’s what I used to incorporate it into the model. Here’s the shaft & spring design and Here’s the shaft & gear design.

I use an ancient version of Photosuit to do modeling modification instructional schematics for others seeking to do a “kitbash” scratchbuild project, such as THIS, which shows how to make airplane wing Leading & Trailing Edge Slats & Flaps. (and before any of you comment on the “oldHooker” name, that is my username on Scale Modeling boards and reflects my UNIT in the Army, which had Chinooks… people who worked with Chinooks were called “Hookers”… I’m “old”, thus “oldHooker”)

I know what I posted was about modeling, but the same principles can be applied to illustrating ANY idea; working out the “mechanism” on paper, using that as a guide to build a prototype and TEST the design, then use whatever graphics program works for you to make the “presentation” copy.

Also, I used Photosuit to do my Patent Drawings which passed pre-examination, with the aid of this handy table:

Papajim, you’re definitely right about it being easy to go too far with a CAD program, I have found first hand that it can turn a simple idea into a complex mess very quickly. It is not for all that’s for sure, but with my lack of artistic ability if I didn’t have the electronic assistance I would be almost completely lost. But that’s just me… One of the many great things about Edison Nation is that their willing to work a project from napkin to shelve. Knowing that EN will likely modify anything I submit is actually a relief to me. As some companies will modify in an attempt to design around, EN modifies with the intention of making a better product without cutting out the inventor. I for one am grateful for that as I am sure we all are. I have no doubts that Edison Nation’s talent and resources will do a better job than I can. I wouldn’t give technical drawings, unless requested.
I am still green as it comes to inventing and I have a lot to learn. Not being able to properly convey my ideas without the help of a CAD program has come to serve a dual purpose. It should be noted that I freely give EN first viewing of my ideas, I believe in EN. However in the event that my projects don’t get picked up through Edison Nation and when I feel I have learned enough to start approaching companies on my own (not yet but soon). It will be comforting to think that I could use the same presentation that I gave to EN. Just trying to do the best I can.
I actually started learning CAD so I could create USPTO acceptable renderings, with the intent of saving money in the long run by not having to hire other people to create them for me. I agree that any tool will do, new or old. Whatever it takes and whatever you’re comfortable with. Do what you need to do my friend and do it the best you can.
Which brings us to the original topic “Are Paper drawings dead?” obviously the answer is no and I don’t believe there going anywhere any time soon. Papjim I am not sure if any of the parts about discouraging or intimidating were meant for me. I do see how technical jargon could have that effect on some. So I do hope that no one is or was discouraged by my postings.
This quote is absolutely perfect for this topic it may not support my point of view, but I can’t help it, it’s just too funny.
“Inventing is a combination of brains and materials. The more brains you use, the less material you need.”
I think Charles Kettering said that. He was a great inventor. He has a lot of quotes that might inspire and or make you laugh.

Penster, the bamboo looks nice. When it’s time to get a new one I think that’ll be the way I go, Thank you.

Amelia, I wish I could draw and love doing it. When I was a kid if you put a chunk of clay in my hands I could build you whatever you asked for. But if you put a pencil in my hand I would draw a chunk of clay.

Great information, I am pretty good at some programs I was so afraid to try at the beginning. Practice and patience and even someone like me can do it :)
But I like to feel the pencil tracing on paper best.

I’m sure it will be fun. My son, the geek, will probably figure it out before I do.

Jane:

Hope you like it, the tutorials help a lot. I think your son will have a good time with it as well!

You don’t have to tell me welcome aboard. I know I’m aboard already because that ‘Insider’ tag is clearly displayed on my avatar. Can’t say I see the same on other people’s mugshots though.

Hey Jim, some good thoughts there. I’m guessing you really like using EN. ;-)

I’m happy for you. I’m glad you found what works for you. The question I have is, “does one size fit all?” Should all inventors use one method to invent? And who should decide which method we all use?

True in some instances you can sketch an idea on a napkin and make millions with it. But how often does that happen? The problem with only thinking in the abstract or over simplifying is that it promotes a lot of fantasy ideas and un-manufacturable concepts. I’m still waiting for my Nimbus 2000 and BTTF Hoverboard. Innovations are only good if they can actually be made to work.

I think some people short-change others’ intelligence. True, while some people want to make a simple sketch, others see the benefit of finding answers to their inventive questions.

If people take some time and really think about their ideas they will be far better off than those who shoot from the hip. And what they present to EN, or wherever, will be of a Higher quality.

Time and again I have seen that Quality provides more value to an invention than does Quantity; 1 great invention is better than 10 bad ones. I think technology can be good.

I use CAD because it enables me to see how my innovations will/can work. I get to think about the innovation which lets me find answers to questions before I show anyone. That to me is a good thing. Knowing answers is good thing.

Will some people be afraid of technology? Certainly. People have been fearful of technology since the wheel. When Cars were first sold people were afraid of those too. Does that mean we ALL should walk on bare feet?

For many of us we like our computers and our software and our CNC milling machines and Rapid Prototying machines and etc. And yes, while our brains work at the speed of light, we use lots of tools to assist us.

We use calculators, rulers, computers and some of us… CAD software. Each person should find the tools they like to use. I’d never tell anyone to use Long Division because one person is afraid of a calculator. I tell people to use what works for them.

I’m a big believer in education. I think people need to know as much as they can to make the best decisions. I’m glad your sharing your ideas because people need information. I’ll share mine too. People can find value in what most speaks to them.

Good to have you aboard Jim.

Great wisdom as always my friend. Thank you

CAD software is great for many applications, but for Edison Nation submissions you have to be careful. Making virtual renditions is okay to get a general idea across, yet it’s easy to go too far. The Edison Nation team has emphasized time and again they will take a simple invention concept and work it from start to finish. If you’re an engineer and able to design and disclose your invention in perfect detail, then that’s great. However, for most of us who use EN’s services, it’s nice to know we don’t have to get bogged down on specific design details, because EN has the talents and resources available to do what is needed. In other words, I prefer to continue inventing and coming up with new product concepts without having to spend a lot of unnecessary time attempting to describe minute details that the EN team will most likely modify anyway! Inventors have to spend their time wisely and anyone thinking they can become a better inventor just because they are adept at using sophisticated computer-aided design software may have a surprise coming. An idea can be expressed using pencil and paper just as it can be with computer software. Until a computer can generate new and original thoughts, concepts, and inventions, it’s alright to get it out of your mind to explain it to others using any available tool, new or old, as you deem is necessary. My point is that some really great inventors can get discouraged and even intimidated when someone else tries to prescribe their own method of creativeness where it probably doesn’t belong. The inventor may even get the idea that since technology has left them behind, then what chance would they have of coming up with something new and novel (heaven forbid!) You can still think at the speed of light and be creative, while getting your concepts into a form for others to understand and appreciate at the slower speed of ‘write’! There’s nothing wrong with that is there?

That’s my method too, Bob. I can’t wait to try that new Pen gadget though!!

I have a big plain-paper notebook and when contemplating a design I make sketch after sketch until the idea crystalizes.

It is something like my golf game; the equipment is not the limiting factor. It’s the operator.

Solidworks and Wildfire are both Parametric CAD applications. They work similar to Sketchup in that you start from a 2D program and then extrude (pull) it into the 3D world. The difference comes with the use of Parameters (parametric… get it ;-) ) These allow you to set sizes and associations between elements in the drawing. That allows you to make designs that have some smarts in them.

For example if you want a bolt hole to always be .25" from the corners of your base plate you can associate that dimension with the hole. Then even if you change the size of the base plate the holes stay where you wanted them.

Wildfire, a $5000 CAD program, is very capable and competes directly against Solidworks. They used to offer a $250 personal license. This is an outstanding price for some really sophisticated software.

If you need to make prototypes you can, in many cases, use this software to make a virtual prototype. Then test it and see if it works, to some degree. From these drawings you can order rapid prototypes or make the parts yourself, you’ll have the blueprints already made.

Anyway, all of it is very cool software.

PerryKaye.com

Anyone find a way to generate STL files from Sketchup Free version?

I use google sketch up and it is really powerful, easy and fun. Great software. Recommended.

@Perry, I started with Autodesk inventor around the same time you tried it, a few years back. My first experience was horrible I wasn’t very pleased with the program at all, mostly due to my lack of experience. But they and I have come a long way since then. Now I can build virtual prototypes with moving parts and make short movies. I am 100% pleased with the new ribbon interface. This has allowed me to have the model space on one screen while having all my commands on a second.
I haven’t tried Solidworks yet but I here good things about it. I believe it’s made by the same company that makes the Catia which is Dassault Systemes out of France, so I would be willing to venture that they are both pretty good. But don’t take my word for it. As far as being able to communicate with a CNC machine which I have not done yet, I believe inventor has closed that gap or at least I have heard it has. I know it can be done. You can export from inventor into the following file formats: Catia V5 part, IGES, JT, Parasolid binary, Parasolid text, pro/ENGINEER both granite and neutral, SAT, STEP, STL, XGL, and ZGL files. Along with the default Autodesk formats. Let me know if any of these formats work with your program?
I haven’t had a need to use sketchbook. For quick ideation I use Photoshop cs3 or a pencil. Quick drawings are important, being able to get an idea down before it slips my mind. The bulk of the design for any idea will sit in my head (because I can’t draw very well) until after some research then after some more research if I want to move forward I create a new project in Inventor. The renderings look great at least I think so. All the works I do in Inventor are for my product development projects, so I can’t post any of my current work. But I will put together an EN widget and send you some examples when I get enough free time.

@ clint, there are quite a few people that swear by Sketchup. If memory serves I have heard that program name thrown around here more than a few times. Their obviously doing great work, especially the part about it being free. Jane and a lot of others might benefit from the combo Sketchup and a graphics tablet or bamboo pen.
Your right about Autodesk requiring considerable study it takes a while but I feel it is worth it. Like I said the new UI is the best I have ever seen, very intuitive.
The SU Podium for sketch up looks nice, I was just reading up on it and have to say that if inventor wasn’t capable of what I need I would definitely try it out.

@Jane, I cannot draw freehand at all I am not that lucky it all comes out looking like chicken scratch where I am the only person that can decipher what anything is. If I ever want anyone to understand the ideas I come up with I need the graphic artwork. Give it some time once you get the ball rolling it’s hard to stop it.

Penster, I found a deal on that Wacom bamboo pen. It looked like the most reasonable 1st thing to try. I’ll keep you posted. I consider it a Valentine to myself ;-)
I tried Sketch Up, but it took forever for me to draw even the most basic shape. I’m sure if I really took time and went through everything it would grow on me. I’ve heard other people who really like it too, Clint. But I think the stuff I want to draw is maybe too… um… odd. OK. odd.

I would highly recommend Google Sketch Up. I’m a professional designer and I use it and also know a lot of other professionl designers/architects that use it too. Unlike AutoCAD that I have taken many many classes to learn over the years I learned SketchUP in just a couple of weeks. They have tons of online tutorials and best of all it’s FREE!

There are tons of components and Plug-ins you can download online for free. They is a rendering plug-in that makes photorealistic renderings called PodiumSU that I use in many of my designs.

Hi Robert,

Great to hear from you. I tried Autodesk Inventor a few years back and ultimately went with Solidworks. Autodesk Inventor was nice program but I saw that all the programs I was using could read Solidworks files and so I went with Solidworks.

I think I would have been happy with either. Solidworks has proven to be a good friend. And I can turn my images in CNC files and run parts when I need them easily. So I enjoy using it

Autodesk Sketchbook is for quick drawings. Things I want to flesh out a look at first. I’m enjoying it too.

The ultimate is a program I once saw that let you go from sketches into parametrics. It was amazing but also something like $30,000.00 a seat. Catia maybe? I don’t remember. When I saw the price I figured Solidworks would do.

You can see some of my designs at www.GizmoLine.com. I drew the images in Solidworks and Rendered them using Bunkspeed. I loved the output of Bunkspeed but the interface was a bit dated.

How do the renderings look in Inventor?

Sketchbook Pro 2011 has tools that simulate paper, ink, pincil and markers. There is another program that does that called Art Rage and it simulates chalk and crayons and has a free version.

I use a Wacom Tablet and like it very much. But try the software… it also works with the mouse… just not exactly as much fun.

Cheers,
Perry Kaye

Jane..just saw one over the weekend that my daughter’s friend brought over and they are really cool!! I will have to ask her what brand it was!!

oh my. Graphic tablets. Those sound like… actual fun.
Now I gotta shop!

@Perry, I use the 2011 Autodesk inventor suite. Autodesk CAD programs are what I was taught on, so I have always stuck with them. When I was in school there were nine other students ten including me, we pooled together to buy a ten seat license which cut the cost down considerably. If you’re thinking about going solo you could easily find a reseller or someone willing a lease a seat. You could even go to Autodesk’s website to find these people it’s under the purchase tab.

@Jane, I had received an Adesso Cyber pad as a Christmas gift a few years ago. It is as intuitive as a regular pencil. You can draw, color, shade with ease. A lot of graphic tablets can do what you need, but the Adesso is the only one that I have had any experience with. It can record what you write or draw on regular paper and save it until your ready to put it on your computer.

Hey Walt:

I have a pen tablet and it is amazing. You actually use it as a pen, select what tool you want, and colors and then draw. Pencils, brushes, different sizes, and more. You can create so much and convert photos into art. Takes a bit of practice but comes with a tutorial.

Got it at Best Buy, it i called Bamboo

http://www.wacom.com/bamboo/bamboo_pen.php?gcli...

Of course I still have my crayons and markers…………and coloring books..

I like my Crayola box of 24 colored pencils. “Preferred by Teachers!” :-)

It’s true. I’ve confessed this before. I use crayons too, and markers.

I honestly don’t enjoy computer graphic programs. Anyone know of one that actually works like real pencils, with shading and colors and the ability to make odd lines and shapes? And is as intuitive as a pencil? And I don’t have to study it for hours before I can really use it?