Don’t they do that Mark? Because I swear nothing lasts like it use to!

It seems I’m always replacing everything. I want to buy new and fun things, not just keep replacing things I already have.

I won’t buy the same brand twice if it fails too quickly.

Wouldn’t that lose consumer confidence? Isn’t branding about building consumer confidence in the brand one took so much time to build?

Actually, designing it to last forever is the fallacy. I work in design. anything the does something-no matter what- WILL wear out. Designing things that last more than a few hundred thousand operations is TOUGH. Operating conditions, relative movement, material selection, maintenance levels, loads, etc. all effect operating life and failure mode.
Since you know it’s going to eventually fail, it is absolutely essential to make sure it fails safely.
As for planned obsolescense, every company I’ve ever worked for planned their products to last as long as possible within the constraints of marketability. That’s the rub, designing in extra life also adds extra cost. With the way people shop today, buying the cheapest thing on the market and refusing to pay extra for quality, those marketing constraints can get very tight.

that’s very interesting, the comment about making it last longer costs more. Things do cost way less now than in the 80’s.

It just never fails that a 1 year warranty is usually good because the item dies a week after that warranty runs out lol.

I can handle that period of time and would buy that same brand. When things die after 8 weeks,I will still buy that same brand, thinking maybe it was a dud. If it happens again, then I don’t use that brand in anything I want to buy.

We know it’s going to fail ….but I want to hit that sweet spot between where it fails and where it damages the brand…that way they have to buy more….and I can buy a bigger boat!

So I could find out how long consumers expect product ‘X’ to last by only giving them short term choices. 3 months, 6 months or 1 year.

Get product ‘X’ to last a wee bit past that average and they will all not only happy, but impressed with the brand?

Can people even do that??

I still would like my product to last as long as it can, without putting extra money into it though. I still think initial consumer price is more important to consumers than how long it lasts on small ticket items.

Isn’t that’s what the big 3 automakers been doing for years?
And now its payback time.

g1

Maybe in some ways….but in a vehicle there are so many design factors I doubt you could design in obsolecence the way you can in a household product.

And even if you could….that’s just good business – nothing wrong with that!

Whenever I buy an electronic item and they try and sell me a warranty- I look the cashier in the eyes and tell them in a stern voice “that I EXPECT it to work for at least 1 year, otherwise I wouldn’t be buying it”. That usually shuts them up! Of course what I don’t tell them, is I expect it to break in 1 year and 1 day :-)

Is some of it planning, or just because things are made in China (not to pick on them!), and made pretty crappy. One person earlier was asking for a manual can opener that worked more than a few times. I have one since college (that’s 30 yrs ago :-) and it still works great. But I’m guessing what you buy today doesn’t.

I’m a rebel…always have been always will be…that is why I invent. Do things my way and new.

All products are made as cheap as they can be. All products are displayed to shine alot brighter than they really are.

Not mine. I give the consumer a surprise when they buy Handi-Straps. If you buy and your truck goes in a ditch you can tow it out using Handi-Straps.

The webbing is rated at 5500 lbs. There are two straps carrying the load. That means it is good for 11000 lbs. Why so heavy? So it takes that long to wear through and also it sits flat on the body from the weight of itself even if left in a heap for a while.

The buckles are also rated for 5000 lbs. Why? Because one it looks that much stronger and two it keeps the apparatus weighted on the body so it doesn’t slip off the shoulders…BECAUSE I CARE ABOUT PERFORMANCE AFTER THE SALE.

Next, the padding in the hand and shoulder part is made carefully and of the highest quality I could find for comfort and durability. It won’t break down after years of use.

The material around the hand is actually really pretty! A nylon with like a design in the looming. Why? Why more expensive nylon? Absolute comfort when using with forces applied to the hand area.

The stitching is done with the same NIOSH regulations as a fall protection harness, which if a stitch breaks on a man falling he is dead. These stitches must be rated to hold 5000lbs. The manufacturer builds fall protection harnesses and all methods of quality control go into Handi-Straps too.

Why so much over engineering? When you get Handi-Straps in your hands you will be very surprised at the quality and you will tell your friends. I get more compliments on quality than anything else.

An inventor needs to get a product following. This is one of my ways to get that…and if ever a cheap knockoff should be able to come and get around my patent, it will be exactly that…a cheap knockoff which in value perception, for what you need Handi-Straps for and need it to last, the cheap knockoff will not hurt me and maybe help even.

There are medical reasons for the extreme quality. The wider more durable materials spread the load so there is no discomfort from straps digging in etc.

I WILL NEVER…even after the many advisors to….never make a cheaper quality product for ANY reason. There will NEVER be a cheaper version either.

The reputation will soar because of this.

Ron Komorowski
Inventor of Handi-Straps
www.handi-straps.com

Sounds very nice,Ron,like a lot of care has gone into handi-straps.You should put the guts of that post in a blurb.Very graphic.

This is exactly my pet peeve with vacuum cleaners. I remember when my mother used to have a nice solid sturdy vacuum that lasted for years. I don’t remember my mother having to buy a new vacuum throughout my whole childhood, maybe a new beater bar or other accessory, but not a whoel vacuum. Now every vacuum I buy fails in some way in a year or less. The hose breaks, the suction gets weak, the engine burns out, etc. I do switch brands frequently because of this. I did just buy a roomba, that I’m absolutely in love with. I’m praying it will last a very long time. But the next vacuum I buy is going to be industrial, the heavy duty kind that cleaning people use at office buildings. If you’re buying a $5 product, that’s one thing, but if you’re spending hundreds on a vacuum that’s another.

I think you can make something that won’t last, but you risk losing customer loyalty, and then you lose business from word of mouth adverstising.

That’s a great example Margaret

Remember Kirby?…..tons of intrinsic value in the weight of the unit…but at the end of the day – no better than units ½ the price. It was designed to fail at the same rate as the others, but at the same time designed to make you feel like it should last forever…..internally it was the same as the others.

Thanks Adam…actually…I underplay Handi-Straps believe it or not. The amazing health or injury prevention is underplayed as well as the quality.

I do this on purpose. I want the consumer pleasantly surprised when they receive. How often or ever is that done with a product?

When the military or EMS buys a couple to try, I need them to go on and buy thousands. When they receive better quality than expected…as all who receive the product feel this way…THEY TRUST ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’m with you Margaret. I still have my very first vacuum that I bought at a K-Mart when I was 19 years old – 20 years now. It still works. I keep it down here and use it in the basement. I’ve gone through 3 vacuums for the upstairs in the last 10 years. I’ll never buy that brand again, and when people ask, I share. I think it would be more important that everyone wanted to buy what you had to offer, and when that item does give in or gets lost, they come back for another. Nothing can last forever, but when you get into being able to say “This washing machine costs 1200 and it only lasted 6 years, that means I just rented myself a washing machine for $200 a year.” I don’t like being able to say that.

As for household products, Mark, if they break on me, I would rather do the inconvenient method than buy it and get “had” again unless it was an object priced in a way that I could not assign a “rental fee” to it, but I’m stubborn that way.

My TV upstairs, we bought it, and about 5 years in the picture went out after it turning off by itself intermittently in the middle of watching it for about a year=$150/year to rent. We paid another $300+ to get that fixed. It is doing it again about 3 years later – will we fix it again? Nope. It now would be about $137/year to rent. The TV in my basement I’ve had for 18 years without problem. The Spongebob TV I bought for my son 2 years ago lasted 6 months before the color left. When my daughter wanted one of those themed TVs, I said nope; that would be our last. Guess which of the two main TV brands I WOULD buy again and WOULD recommend? lol. Guess which TVs I warn people from?

Mark,

I do remember Kirby. I think that’s the vacuum my mother had and it lasted forever. There was actually a Kirby vacuum store in our town and if there was a problem, she go there to get new accessories. And if it did break, she could get it fixed there. Those were the days. Seems like the failure rate of vacuums is way shorter these days.

My parents had a Kirby too. It didn’t last forever, and my dad recently bought another just last year, thereby suffering the wrath of my mother. I remember taking off that little thing in the front with that latch and changing parts. I remember mostly trying to carry it upstairs to clean my bedroom -heavy as all get out.

We had a salesman come in (warning-very hard to get them to leave), but when he finally shared the price, I just KNEW I could figure out how much per year I’d pay to rent it. lol.

Our last vacuum last year….we bought the display model to get it cheaper, just as many bells and whistles as the others, but only $79 – might as well buy cheap each time.

My first vacuum wasn’t a purchase of bells and whistles, because at 19, I was just looking for the cheapest thing that would pick up the dirt off my floor because I was working 2 jobs to live on my own – $99=20 years so far = $5/year to rent.

I go through vacume cleaners like socks lol. I now buy the cheapest at Walmart, I don’t care about the brand anymore, they were all breaking too fast.

My last one I bought..The Boss power plus, has lasted 7 months so far and cost me $35.00 on sale.

I don’t mind buying a new one every 7 months at that price, but it’s still working great so far :)

when i know an inventor or company deliberately designs products
for obsolence, i buy elsewhere.

Wonder how much landfill garbage is due to designing for this reason? (And I’m not what people call green, tree-hugger, crunchy, etc.)

So, this beggs another question. Where’s the blame here? We have become a throw-away economy.
If I have to design a vacuum to retail for $35 in order to get anybody to buy, I don’t have the option of making it reliable. I don’t even have the option of building it in this country.
Three undeniable facts:
1. A company whose products don’t sell goes out of business.
2. A company who does not make a profit goes out of business.
3. American consumers generally put price over quality.

We are getting what we want.

No, I’m not putting price before quality. I buy cheap now because I’ve been burned too many times on buying the same items for hundreds of dollars that last no longer than the cheap items. Companies no longer care about quality, and THAT hurts them all, even those that do. Higher price no longer equates to the best unfortunately.

Addendum;

This may be changing. In this collapsing economy people are holding on to their things longer. We might even see the return of repair shops.

Chris, Are you buying at Wal-Mart?
Note, I said generally. I know some people who still insist on quality. But they are really paying high prices, and some things can no longer be found (see fact 1). They can thank the other consumers.

Hmmmm…interesting thoughts here. If everyone just has a rip-someone-off-attitude in all businesses…which I think is mostly true…is that the main cause of the global economic collapse?

If we all sell each other shit that don’t work…we will all go broke? No?

Exactly Chris. I ALWAYS would buy the higher price assuming higher price equalled higher quality.

I put that need to assemble vacume cleaner in and out of my cart a few times before deciding to buy it. I needed to put it together when I got home. lol

I thought, no way will this last…but then again my 300.00 vacumes don’t either. At least with this one, I get what I expect. Strangly enough it’s still working beyond what I expected :)

I also use to buy from specialty shops until I went into a vacume store, looking for a vacume bag for my sister’s vacume.

The guy was rude and angry at people who buy department store vacumes and said he doesn’t sell parts for their crap. That those companies only make one model for so long and then discontinue the parts needed for them as well to make consumers buy another vacume.

He may have been right, but him venting on me turned me off ever going in his store again.

I had trouble picking between the lime green or hot pink.I got the green in the end…I know that was an important detail you would all die to know ;)

i think for something to last forever must be well made, but with so much outsourced to overseas and cheap labor, i am sure for the most part quality is lax. if you use cheap materials, it will fail, if the labor is cheap the workers dont do a good job and the assembly is shoddy it fails. longevity is something for expensive items, cheap stuff at the local stores probably lacking on the quality side. I have gone through can openers, coffee pots, vacuums, and electric drills over the past year. unless i pay several hundred dollars for a drill, i just replace every year or two and still saves, but what a waste of materials and resources.

“…we will all go broke? No?” Yes.

Ron, I don’t agree that most businesses have a rip-someone-off-attitude. That has not been my experience. My experience is that businesses feel forced to compete in a marketplace that only pays bottom-dollar. This makes it nearly impossible to profit while producing product that significantly outperform/outlast the competition (see fact 2).

No, not those items. I buy cans of soup for a dollar less and orange juice and bagels from Wal-Mart specifically, for up to $2.50 less per unit for the same brand, but I purposely just blindly give the rest of my business to a Michigan-based competing company first. I don’t purposely seek out the cheapest place to buy items or do price comparisons, but times are starting to get tight enough to where I should be.

When I was trying desperately to land a Butterscotch Pony for my daughter for Christmas, I had visited all stores and called all stores daily – Butterscotch came in at Wal-Mart. The Wal-Mart just down the street from my house that had been there for 3 years prior that I never stepped foot into. They called me and I ran to get it. I wandered the store while I waited for my pony – that’s when I discovered the soup, the juice, and the bagels would save me a lot of money. I purposely don’t look at anymore prices while there because I already feel guilty for saving $15 per shopping trip on those items. lol. I can completely understand why some people must do their shopping there though.

Chris, Sorry if I turned that into a personal attack. It was not intended that way. Believe me, I’m only working part time right now and I understand the need to save money.
I hate feeling like I rented something for a high price. Maybe this collapse is what we need to make us rethink our wastefull methods of the last 30 years. I like fixing things and would love to see the return of repairable products. Anybody know how to make that happen?

Take the story of vacuums…..there is one out there now where you see all sorts of bells and whistles with uniqueness and appeal, the pitchman elicits the feeling of trust and kindness somehow, the ads could be seen 5 times a day for what seemed like eons….heck, it made us want one and gave us the impression everyone wanted one. They’re extremely expensive IMO. We looked at them a couple of times and only at our Michigan-based store. When it came time to buy a new vacuum, we almost forked over that money to do so, UNTIL 3 different people said it wasn’t worth it. Had we heard firsthand stories about how pleased people were with it – we would have definitely forked over that money and bought one.

The key here is to make it at least worth the money you spend on it! If a vacuum is worth it’s weight in gold, you can bet hubbies everywhere will be receiving hints on what momma wants for Christmas, anniversaries, or birthdays and mother’s days! I’d dare say that a woman would give up a girlie gift in lieu of something perceived to be of significant value to her in the departments of cleaning, chores, housework, etc. that cost waaaay above an average price lol. I know I would.

I’ve also received terrible opinions on specialty vacuum shops, so I’ve therefore NEVER stepped foot into them. Keep it in mind.

I feel like people say they understand the consumers……but when I compare those generalizations to myself, they are not talking about me.

I didn’t take it that way at all Mark. You’re talking to a woman who just spent $260 at a local store for groceries 2 days ago and didn’t really buy anything for dinners to last a whole week – it really stings. My income is down $6000/year from 3 years ago too. I also watched my single mother try to raise 3 girls when she was a mere 21, so I don’t judge people just because they shop at Wal-Mart. I can see WHY.

I get the feeling things are going to get really bad and there will be a return to more of a way of life of conscious decision-making and evaluating of needs/wants that seemed to be the way of life back in the 70’s and 80’s of MY life, but maybe I was a little more sheltered in that I didn’t realize there was so much more elsewhere that would be someone else’s life. I never noticed it at least.

The area I live in now….My daughter got her ears pierced recently. In talking to the sales rep about possible allergic reactions to the metals…..there was gold and then platinum I think it was, with platinum being one higher on the price ladder than the gold. My daughter wanted the pink ones, which were the gold ones. I took a moment and figured I knew I wasn’t allergic to gold, soooo…..not that it automatically means she wouldn’t be, but genetically speaking, I figured probably less likely, so I went for the gold and saved $25 in the process. Then her best friend got her ears pierced. When my daughter asked her why she didn’t get the same kind, the friend replied with, “Because my mom said your kind is cheesy.” Ugh. Can you believe that? On what planet is real gold cheesy?

funny thing is, used to be cars rarely made it to one hudred thousand miles, now they last much longer. 20 or 30 years ago you wouldnt dream of paying several thousand dollars for a car with 100k, but yet i just forked over 7grand for a van with just over 100k on it, so some things have gotten better, but i think it is time for the cheap products to start being more eco friendly. i would pay a little more for better quality that last longer which uses less resources and is ultimately better for the environment. what they should do is find a way to penalize companies who use too much resource. almost like the printer issue, i could buy a new printer for what the ink costs, so why buy ink instead of a new printer. it would be eco suicide to do this, and i think its time we start bringing our manufacturing jobs back here and stop giving china and the other countries our money(especially since they are very low on the human rights totem pole. we should not be dealing with them, let the jobs go to our people.

if we have good jobs here, then our pride goes up, then our production quality goes up, then we have things that last forever. my father used to say never buy a car that was made on monday or friday because workers were either waiting for the weekend or getting over it. same with quality, if you want quality you have to have pride and purpose. what do the chinese workers no about that? at the end of their day they are still poor, so why make quality for the americans?

when you bring back that purpose, and good wage, then quality and product longevity follow, but it all boils down to which cook is in the kitchen. a happy cook means good food, make the cook angry and you may wish you never ate there, or you may get something in your food you didnt order.

Chris, if I bought my wife a vacuum for Christmas she would kill me….nothing with a cord is the rule in our house….maybe a blow dryer or a flat iron.

This debate brings up some very interesting points – Are we really just feeling the effects of burning the candle at both ends?

Every product lives on a Benefit/Determent scale balanced by quality and price. At low quality/low price the scale is at a point of equilibrium. The same is true at High Quality/High Price. What we as consumers are demanding of the manufacturers is a scale out of equilibrium in High Quality/Low Price

It just doesn’t happen that way…and WE are the reason. We demand high wages…and buy low cost products. In the 50’s the wages were average and so were the prices…Now the wages are much higher and guess what sports fans…so are the prices.

What has changed is demand – we have 10 times the demand for consumer goods as in the 50’s – and since the scale is equal, we added consumer debt into the equation to help that demand.

Manufacturers don’t have a rip you off attitude – we as consumers have a more for less attitude and what we see is a market attempting to respond.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/01/high-tech-trash/carroll-text

This is what is disturbing about the thought of people designing anything to be disposed of quickly rather than designing something to last the longest it can…there is a picture slideshow option, etc.

Mark S.

I think the repair shops are going to happen as a natural occurrence of this present economy. Manufacturers are cutting back on labor due to lack of credit, and actual and/or perceived diminishing sales in the retail market. I think we are headed into hyper inflation in the near future. The treasury keeps creating money out of thin air with nothing to back it up. The purchasing power of your dollar isn’t going buy what it used to. So eventually your are going to have inflated dollars chasing after too few goods. I think the repair shop business is going to see a revival out of necessity. The good news is I to like to fix things.

but the question arises is it better to repair or replace. a 70 dollar vacuum would cost to repair, when i could go buy a new one. unless you paid hudreds for it then might be worth the repair. like i said about the printers, its cheaper to buy a new one than replace the cartridges. the same is for a car, when the repair costs outweigh the value of it then its probably time to replace it.

Shawn I’ve been filling my printer cartridges for less that $2.00 each for years. I don’t know how or why the consumer ended up paying so much for ink cartridges. Did the manufacturers meet in a back room somewhere and decide to do the old give them the razor and sell them the razor blades routine. Did one manufacture start selling cheap printers and inflated ink cartridges and the other manufactures follow suit. I would gladly buy from any manufacturer a more expensive printer if the price of the cartridges were a just few dollars each. I would love to know the actual manufacturing cost of a printer cartridge in the quantity of say 10 million units. The only thing I can think of is the cartridges must be protected by a patent. Each company must of had to pay a fortune for the rights to sell cartridges for their printers and they are just passing it on to the consumer. If this is the case I’m going to break out a bottle of champagne when that patent expires.

lol. Your printer will expire then too probably! I get mine recharged at under half the cost – laserjet cartridges. One of my printers needs a new paper grabber thing so the paper can take, but I’ve had that for 18 years now, but it is older than that because it was mine as an employee in a company that closed down. My other one I had to get when the paper grabber broke and I literally had 750 pages of work to print out NOW, but I’ve had that one for 6 years now and still recharge the cartridges. When I get the paper gripper thing fixed, the kids get the old one. I hope it will work with the newer computers. I just got a new color scanner/printer, etc. but only because I need to make up some color brochures to drum up some new business, and I’ve been wondering how to handle the color cartridge refills – hoping the company that recharges my others will do these too.

Chris, if you have a Walgreens near you, they
will fill your black cartridges for $10.00 ea.
and color for $15.00.

i have tried the refill kits and the results are only so so. since i need mine for high quality work, i don’t like taking chances with less quality. every time i refill mine i end up with lousy print(other than black and white)

I refilled my black cartridges with black pen ink.It worked ok.I filled my colour cartridges with black pen ink.You can rinse them out with water.It worked all right.These smart chipped cartridges only allow you 3 refills then stop working.
Apart from chips,I think the printing head packs up after a while.

Thanks Toni. I’ll try that.

Shawn, do you still have poor quality when you HAVE them refilled versus the refill kits?

I use a color laser printer at work…cost a bit more for the equipment, but I only replace the toner once a year or so….maybe 3500 prints

27 years???

what is it a Heath Kit???? I have a hammer you can use :)

Mark I don’t know if a hammer would work. once when we were moving it fell about 5’ to the ground and cracked the plastic case and I said " this is what I have been waiting for" plugged it in at are new place and the picture was better then it had ever been. It’s like that book by Steven King, “Christine” I think it was called. It’s alive!!

“funny thing is, used to be cars rarely made it to one hudred thousand miles, now they last much longer. 20 or 30 years ago you wouldnt dream of paying several thousand dollars for a car with 100k, but yet i just forked over 7grand for a van with just over 100k on it, so some things have gotten better,”

This was arguably forced by Honda and Toyota (Toyota now being recognized as the world leader while the US’ big 3 beg for bailout money).

An interesting case study on this subject right there.

I remember British cars.Only fit for circuses.

“The first thing my wife and I bought together was an RCA t.v. I want a new t.v so bad but I told my wife we won’t get one until ours burns out…The thing won’t die.”

Yeah, but Ed, you gotta sweet piece of history there, huh!?

Is it close?