William,
If you value your and your children’s future, you better wake up and look at the facts. The current healthcare reform will not begin to 2013, but you will start paying for it as soon as it passes. Why will it take to 2013? Do you know why? I can guess that thye bill is so bad that the current President wants to secure a second term before this healthcare reform destroys Healthcare all together. Why would the Congress and the joke of a President try to push this bill when the support is so low. Are the millions of people oppose it stupid or racist? I do not think so, because unlike you I and all the people against this bill looked at facts to make their decision. I know how bad this will be for everyone. You might want to know that you will pay about $2000 to $3000 more a year as soon as it passes and then will not be able to use it until 2013. Can you afford that? If you can not pay for healthcare now, how are you going to pay for this.
Has your life or has anyone else’s life improved with the policies Obama has implimented. We have over 7 millions jobs lost since he took office, with no signs of any major changes. We spent over $850 Billion for only 300,000 jobs saved or added. That is only half of the jobs lost in one month.
I believe you will wake up on day. I hope that everyone that does support this healthcare reform starts to question every aspect of the bill. If the bill is sooooo great than it should be looked at in great detail. If we live in a democracy then the will of the people should be heard. An overwhelming majority is against this bill. Shouldn’t Obama and the Congress listen to the majority?
I work for the government. With my current military Healthcare, it took 3 months before I could receive a MRI, and 4 more months before I received corrective surgery. So, it took 7 months to fix an injury when it should have taken less than a week. IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT!
If it passes, I assure you that waiting 7 months for non-emergency surgery will be the earilest time you will be seen. The bill will cut doctors pay while tripling their work load. The government will dictate what type of tests and treatment you get, by giving doctors guide lines to follow. They will also tell the doctor what they will or will not pay for. So, the government will indirectly through red tape tell the doctors how they can treat you. Not to mention the number of doctors and nurses that will leave the practice because they can make more money doing something else.

Can anyone say smokescreen. This health care garb is just a smokescreen to hide what is really going on or not going on.

Alvin,

Oh, please, enough of the “do you want the gov’t making healthcare decisions for you” bugaboo scare tactics.

I used to work for the gov’t (VA hospital). As in the private sector, there are good, hard working people and also some lazy leaches. Still, I’d rather have a gov’t employee making $75,000/year have input into my healthcare decisions than a $200,000/year insurance co. executive whose fat bonuses are tied to denying me care.

No, the current health care bills are not perfect. But the present system is not working. The “health” insurance industry has had 60+ years to get it right, and they have failed miserably. If they were smart, they would have collectively funded programs that focused on preventative care – good for us, and good for them, financially. Instead, they focused on collecting premiums from healthy people, them dumping them before they need care.

It’s a sick system and I commend Obama for attempting to design a better system – something your political buddies were too cowardly to do.

BTW, your party had eight years in office, and it is THEY who trashed the economy. I support the capitalist system, but it does need to be regulated. Unregulated capitalism cannibalizes itself, as the mortgage industry proved – mortgage brokers eagerly making loans to people who they KNEW would default – but hey, the loans were sold off so the losses were some other capitalist’s headache. And then the walls came tumbling down . . . .

Geez, I should have skipped that second cup of coffee. BTW, I did not vote for Obama, thought he needed a term in the Senate . . . .

not only is this health care debacle a smokescreen, so is the president. Keep the public arguing over who is better in office or what party is better because they cant handle the truth of how things are really run.

The debacle is with Republicans that are so against it!

It is an oxymoron that Republicans stand against Big Gov’t but then stand behind Big Business!

The smokescreen is with Republicans that have nothing to offer but fear mongering/hate speech and racism.

The debacle is – WE ARE ALL being played by our government.

Our current situation is not the result of the this administration, or the last administration, or the 7-8 before that… but the accumulative outcome of ALL of the above.

They play us against each other (Conservative vs Liberal / Republican vs Democrat / Right vs Left).

Divide and conquer!

We have no one to blame but ourselves. Our political system is so entrenched and infected by special interest and lobbyists that it could take decades to “fix” it… and I’m not even sure that modern America has the cahones to do anything about it.

Luckily I don’t have time to participate further in this discussion… ’cause I will surely have an embolism.

:-O

Nice to see the “family” getting along once again. Nothing will be accomplished with this thread. Except, maybe higher blood pressure.

If the Democrats wanted to pass the bill, they could do it without any Republicans voting for it. They have enough DEMS to pass anything, but they fail to and blame the republicians. All but one Republician has taken a stand against this – the Democrats are divided on the bill. If you want to look at the Republician plan, you can – it is posted.
BTW what exactly is Obama’s plan. – He tells you what it is (kind of), but the fact is he does not have a written plan. So, you can not debate his plan or find the real costs. You can only debate the three other plans, if you were able to read them.
I am not going debate this isssue anymore, because it is pointless if you will not seek the facts. An easy analogue – If I wanted to go ice skating on a lake, I would test the ice first before I get on it. I may put one foot on it or I might poke the ice with a stick to see how thick it is. Linda and William would rather run out on the ice and never find out it was safe until it was too late.
Fact: I DO NOT NEED TO LIE – It took three months to get my MRI. I hurt my ankle in June 2008. I tried to heal it myself until I could not bear the pain. Late July I was seen at my Primary doctor and refered to an Orthopedic Surgeon which took 5 weeks – I saw him in Sept. He ordered an MRI that day. I went to schedule my MRI and I had to wait until late Nov. I rescheduled with my doctor after the MRI. Because of the holiday routine, I could not be scheduled until the 2nd week of Jan 09. He schedule my surgery for March 5 2009. NOW TELL ME I AM LYING! I am active duty and I am part of the Government Health care. I am also a medic.
Linda,
If you did work in the VA, then you would know that the Veterans have it even worst than I did. I worked with the VA in Delaware. I had to utilize them to get some blood test ran. I also helped Veterans with health benefit questions.

See how good it works, health care debate can last a long time and works really good, its how democrats keep from us as to what they really arent doing(it worked great for Clinton and we all know what Clinton was doing, lol). Bush, didnt blow a smokescreen. He took all the blame for what he had no control of, the president is the fall guy, someone to blame. So, here you go, smokescreen either way.
I forget there are several Lindas in here, Alvin, i giggled after i realized i wasnt the one you were talking too. I thought, i’m the one laughing at the people on the frozen pond, sitting back inside where it isnt cold and shaking my head at the comedy going on over nothin but smoke and mirrors…lol

I used to be an insurance underwriter. The first thing I thought when Obama announced that there would be no pre-exisitng conditions, etc. was how would the insurance companies keep our rates down? They can’t. My concern was that it would put the insurance companies out of business. Yes, you would have choices, but why would I pay high rates when I can go on the government plan? And that translates in to loss of a lot of jobs in the insurance industry. If the government is running healthcare you can expect some seriously long waits for treatment, as Alvin said, and lots of red tape. It’s just not as simple as giving everyone healthcare. There was a lot that I liked in the bill but also a lot I didn’t like. There are a lot of details that need to be worked out. Personally I think they should just spread out the risk pool. Currently insurance does it by state and county, or by your company. If you have someone in your company with chronic illness, your rates go up. If they spread it out all over the country, I should think the rates would go down. Perhaps the government should offer reinsurance. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/488284
The healthcare bill is just way more complicated than it seems when you look at the details and the trickle down effect.

Our healthcare system needs “tweaking”; NOT a complete overhaul. Anyone who supports ObamaCare either:

1] hasn’t studied the facts
2] doesn’t understand the constitutional ramifications
3] has ulterior motives (ie. politicians)
4] believes everything they hear from their party affiliation – without doing their homework
or
5] like a parrot, just repeats talking points – (Bush Lied – People Died!)

Almost everything our government touches eventually turns to crap! And… history shows that the cost associated with ObamaCare will soar.

Here are a few GovCare programs from the past:

PROGRAM YEAR ESTIMATED COST ACTUAL COST
Medicare 1965 $12 Billion $110 Billion
Medicare Hospital 1965 $ 9 Bil $ 67 Bil
Medicaid Hospital 1987 $ 1 Bil $ 17 Bil
Medicare Home Care 1988 $ 4 Bil $ 10 Bil
Schip 1997 $ 5.4 Bil $ 6.8 Bil
Medicare Prescription Drug 2003 $ 49 Bil $ 41 Bil

Here’s a link to the full article in The Wall Street Journal:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527487...

The bottom line is WE CAN’T AFFORD THIS.

:-O

HMMMM!

I guess lets keep the status quo.

Do nothing, as the Republicans are currently doing to address these costs.

Keep having to pay higher costs to cover those who are uninsured currently.

Keep the Insurance Companies Execs./employees living high on the hog!

Constitutional Ramifications over Life?

Ulterior Motive: Provide Health Care to those less fortunate. I guess this is not a motive for Republicans.

Believes everything they hear: Republican Town Hall Meetings…Need I say more?

Government Run Programs that do not work: US Military? Current Medicare(Try to remove this from the current system and see your ramifications).

Costs are soaring now. Goto local hospitals and ask to see bottom line costs spent on covering those without health care. Now spread that across the country….Billions in lost revunue passed on to you and me

you know what the people wanted, is free health care like the UK has. How does it always evolve into cheaper insurance? This is what happened when the Clintons tried. And as it is now, its the less fortunate who gets free health care, not us self employed middle class who has to buy there own insurance, which, ours went up to half of what we make a month. Where is the sense in that..? I know something needs done, but government insurance, i dunno, i think its the wrong direction to go in even though we’ve been screwed by rising insurance rates…

I didn’t say anything about free health care.

More competition is what the free market is about to lower costs.

Sully,

DISCLAIMER
I’ll apologize in advance for any perceived personal attack, because that is definately not my intention.

Politicians are VERY happy to divide and conquer by “creating” class wars, racial tension, etc., and I see that you’ve been conquered by the Left. But don’t fret… I too was a proud Democrat for 20 years… and then a proud Republican for 10…

But in the last 4-5 years I’ve purged myself of the proverbial “Kool-Aid” and have come to the realization the our government, as a whole, is totally out of control. They are no longer for the people. They are for the lobbyists and special interest groups – flat out!

So… if you believe the government will make your life better… go for it. But be careful what you wish for.

We can sit here (in front of a flat screen) bloviating our point of view, chests puffed up, pounding the table with a fist for emphasis (just like a politician?), or we can open our eyes, get off our butts, and start questioning everything that’s been shoved down our throat for the past 6 decades.

Good Luck

Randy E

Randy

No need to apologize. But appreciate the rapport of differing views.

Lets save this energy on this thread and focus upon our Invention Process threads otherwise we may miss something that may be pertinent.

That’s probably a good idea!

:0)

i’m really not sure why any discussion of politics almost always ends in yelling….lol…why is that. I have yet to ever get mad at anyone, yet, boy have i made people mad. In fact, i’ve been kicked off forums for not agreeing with someones opinion..
Luckily all you guys seem to be level headed…
But heck, i was hoping for free health care…..lol….like in the UK. I can hope cant i?

Pat,
You must be afraid to read the Republicians bill. If you beleive in free markets then you are most likely a republician or a conservative and do not even know it. Republicians haven’t done alot of things right, but they are right on this and alot of other issues that the Democrats are trying to push now. If your a Democrat – fine I do not have ill feelings about you. I really do not consider myself a Republican – I’m an American plan and simple. I question everything when it comes to the future of my family. I am passionate and may be a little bit over bearing, but I am just trying to get people to think and question their decisions if it is not based on facts. Do you have the moral courage and integrity to question the democrats, by looking at the oppositions views and thinking for yourself?

Linda C.,
Funny! I meant to clarify what Linda I was referring to.

Why do so many people see this as all or nothing? I keep hearing “If you don’t like this bill, you must want the status quo”. I think health care reform is necessary. The current system is broken. The problem is the proposed bill is flawed as well. I don’t claim to be an expert and have not read this bill (I can’t, it hasn’t been written yet). What I do know is ANY bill so one-sidedly condenmed must be horribly flawed. If it had real merit, at least a few republicans would be supporting it. Republicans may not agree with you, but that don’t make them evil.
This issue is horribly complex. This government needs to slow down, work together and come up with real legislation that can be supported in a bipartison manner. The bill needs to be written, published, and reviewed before being made law. This is too important to be rushed.

Alvin,.. I Luv me some Democrats!!! But I do agree with u on one thing… I hate the fact that they are considering making buying health ins. mandatory, it’s the only thing I really don’t understand about the bill. But oh well… I’ve paid a couple ($500) tickets for driving with no insurance,.. I guess I might just have to get use to being ticketed for “COUGHING” with no insurance! Lol and cry-ol hahaha!

William,
The more you find out the truth about the bill the more you will hate it.

Breaking news…just read in the paper today…The insurance companies are planning to raise our premiums by as much as 50% in response to the bill. That should uninsure a lot more people, perhaps even unemploy many more. It will definitely strain the working man’s and the small businessman’s budget. Insurance companies simply can not afford to cover everyone with the same coverage at the same rate. I am all for reform. I agree that insurance company CEO’s have fat pockets. But this bill obvioulsy needs more work. The insurance companies are shifting the cost of this bill to us. They are trying to make up for the money they will lose if the bill passes now. Putting the burden on the insurance companies obviously is not enough. This bill was not thought through well enough. It needs to go back to the drawing board.

On George Stephanopolis’s show today there was talk of legalizing mary jane and taxing it to pay for health care…Hmmmm?

       
"Awww, come on guys, just relax a little, will ya?! If you guys think this H.R.3200 bill is gonna be crazily absurd, wait until December, when the ‘Copenhagen Climate Treaty’ is signed, sealed and delivered…Hey man, this New World Order thing has got to get started eventually, don’t you all agree?!

Oh, by the way, Mr. Winter…The Internal Revenue Service will be contacting you here shortly…Man, I love being President!!!"

Well if a new order means less poverty n famine then I’m all for it! P-nut, the second he won the election he was probably put on the short list (maybe even when he became the Democratic nominee to be our candidate?). “First black leader of the free world!” is grounds in my book! In itself a giant leap for peace in so many ways they couldn’t be counted. ps Copenhagen makes yummy chaw!