Les, welcome to the party. Unfortunately, before you showed up, we had a HUGE conversation about this, wearing out every take on the subject. I’m sure there is more to add, but if you are looking for an overall opinion on this subject, from every angle, check out “made in the U.S.A.”

Thanks Mark I will

Les I didn’t read the original post Made in the USA. The answer is simple to me from a manufacturing/merchandising stand point. It depends on what the product is. If you have a product that is unique, in demand, and is protected by a patent, then you could probably have it made in the USA and sold in the USA. If requested any knockoffs entering the USA can be stopped by customs agents.

The reality is If your product is even somewhat competitive in the market place then you will probably outsource. If you don’t it’s a mute point because you won’t be in business very long anyway.

Sorry, a true capitalist would say China all the way. Lower costs means you can have more profits which in tern means youcan hire more Americans to come up with more products to produce in China. Does this sound bad? In my defense, I did marry an American.

Richard, that is not the way it works though. There usually is not more products and no more workers will be hired…there is just one fat cat who is getting rich and the poor that used to work there are just getting poorer with no job.

My manufacturer talks once in a while about having all made in China. I quickly talk him out of it. He does say if he outsources the company will be 5 people in an office instead of a company of 60 employees. This is the truth and the typical story.

The fact of the matter is this, my product is made here, a major fight for me to do so but I do, but sometimes we can’t make all here. I know that but I will try. In this case try to make some part of the product here.

We have to. Outsourced jobs have killed the middle and lower class which makes up the mass consumer. Now the rich are hurting because the lower classes don’t have any money to give the rich as the consumer. We even gave up 20 million service jobs to illegal aliens who send the money BACK TO THEIR COUNTRY.

This mentality must end or we are doomed. Maybe if we start making stuff again and learn to work harder then we will be more competitive. Besides…with all the automation possibilities there is no excuse. Even with automation there is jobs created and one is engineers to build and maintain the machines for example.

Les….please see the thread I started “Made in USA” Good for you realizing the importance of Made in U.S.A. If war and winning is so important throughout history, manufacturing at home is more important to keep everyone working and to make money to fund the military, or feed everyone etc.

What else we supposed to do? All just sell each other a bunch of junk? Where would the product come from and where would we get the up front money to buy it?

Ron Komorowski
Inventor of Handi-Straps
www.handi-straps.com
MADE IN THE U.S.A.

the short video at www.storyofstuff.com is well worth viewing.

we must create a new paradigm that provides a win-win situation for every person— and the planet

Ron, I applaud your devotion to Made in the USA.

What is your opinion on companies/inventors who don’t go the route of Made in the USA? I mean, there is an understanding to prefer people to have things Made in the USA.

Also, I believe EE has used China, what are your thoughts about that and would that prevent you from dealing with them?

Not trying to make an argument, just interested in your view/opinion.

Paul…we watched this…but the matter of fact, the United Stated is going down as a whole because we just wanna sell each other stuff and also rip each other off in the sale and we don’t want to make stuff anymore. Making stuff builds strong countries.

Are we building anymore skyscrapers like China and India? No….you know why? Because it is much easier for someone to get into the business od buying and selling them rather than breaking their ass building them.

We lost our equity in our homes. Our paycheck does not or barely covers our food and fuel bill. Our banks are broke and dropping like flies. Everyone is broke, the country is broke, because we don’t make stuff anymore. We send our money to other countries that do.

Even Junior and our young females, they don’t work anymore to help put themselves through college or buy their own car…the illegal aliens do the landscaping, building, make the burgers….and bring the money back to their country where they can buy a house for 25Gs.

This American mentality has wiped us out. The video is great but there are clean manufacturing jobs we can do as simple as making burgers….but we don’t. There is plenty of clean manufacturing.

3M has a WONDERFUL program called 3P where they recycle all of the chemical by-products in manufacturing and make more money re-using. 10 years ago they were the hands down leaders in pollution prevention in manufacturing.

Either we start working hard again and make stuff or Russia has a surprise for us, a nuclear warhead. This country is weakening because we got lazy. Look at our bridges even….starting to fall. 100 years ago Americans were gung ho building this country!!!!!!!

What happened???

Ron, I like your passion and yes, I wish more Americans would buy American cars for example but.. and here’s where I’m going on gut and don’s have the facts in front of me but I still think we have a larger middle class today then anytime in history. This isn’t a great year to use as an example because of the mortgage crisis which will skew the numbers. And while my example is a bit tongue and cheek, their is value in producing at lowest costs for couple of reasons. 1) more profit does allow for more creativity and yes better jobs here and 2) lower costs would remove the some incentive for a knockoff to come out and undersell you. That’s my take. Oh one last thing while on my horse… decrease taxes and cut waste. The more money people get to keep the more flexibility and ability to start your own company. And finally, hey Garcia. Did you change your picture???? off to work I go

Ron, I applaud your devotion to Made in the USA.

What is your opinion on companies/inventors who don’t go the route of Made in the USA? I mean, there is an understanding to prefer people to have things Made in the USA.

Also, I believe EE has used China, what are your thoughts about that and would that prevent you from dealing with them?

Not trying to make an argument, just interested in your view/opinion.

Richard, yeah, I changed it. I don’t have alot of pictures of myself, especially since I’ve lost my weight. The gotee (i’m sure that’s spelt wrong) is new. I’m often told I look 26 or so, I’m actually 35.

Jason

Story of Stuff is a really well-designed online presentation (one of the best) and I’ve watched it a few times but something just doesn’t seem right to me. I was a journalist back in the day and that experience taught me two things: 1) very few journalists are unbiased and the ones who claim they are usually have the largest (hidden) agendas and 2) If it sounds like it might have something to do with lobby groups and politics, it usually does.

If I had more time, I’d do a little digging to see who is (really) behind the site (follow the money as they say). Hosting that kind of video for millions of users can get expensive – that’s why we only make our episodes available to gold members. I’m pretty sure the donations button is on the site more to make us feel that it’s run off donations than as an actual revenue generator.

I could totally be wrong and there’s no doubt that there are plenty of truths in there. I also wouldn’t doubt if some of the lines drawn to connect those truths are a bit askew.

The one thing that I couldn’t get over at the end was that after telling us all about the terrible stuff that we’re putting into the environment, she recommends we all switch to the new “energy efficient” light bulbs (#8 on http://www.storyofstuff.com/anotherway.html). Today’s energy efficient light bulbs may be more efficient but they do it using materials that are far more harmful to us and the environment (http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp) than the “old-fashioned” light bulbs when disposed of.

I’m not against change, I think LED (and OLED) light bulbs will change the world and I’m all for it. And this is just a tiny example but if it’s on her top 10 list of what to do to stop killing our environment, it just doesn’t add up to me.

Les, even though there is another thread it is worth revisiting.

Tom, Thanks for bringing up the point: knockoffs entering the USA can be stopped by customs agents. Can they really monitor and enforce that? If so, I am sold at any price to manufacture in the U.S.

Also, a new realization: I learned that consumer protection laws are a relatively new policy in China and Japan, since the mid 90’s. I am speculating that the outsourcing trend could have become wildly popular in the earlier 90’s because it was more difficult to hold those countries accountable for irresponsible or faulty products. In other words, it was economical to outsource because you couldn’t be sued. Those times have changed.

This decision is rather personal and depends on one’s values.

A Chinese, Vietnamese or whatever all deserve to earn a living. If they are willing to toil and work 12 hours a day for a bowl of rice rather than wait for a handout from a country like ours, then I have no problem with that.

The really issue with our current debate is the lack of competitiveness. Housing, education, taxes and transportation are way too high in our country so employers are forced to pay wages that are up to twenty times as much as those workers in other countries.

For this country to stay competitive, the prices on these abovementioned necessities need to drastically come down. Either that or we will go through a hyperinflationary environment which would have a similar effect.

For example, say the price of a pound of chicken in this country is raised from the current $1/lb to $6/lb, then a typical worker earning $6/hr would need to work 2 hours to be able to buy 2 lbs of chicken (2 lbs x $6 = $12).

Currently, in China they’re paying about a dollar a pound for chicken. Since the minimum is approx. $1/hr, they need to work two hours for 2 lbs of chicken.

As you can see, by raising the cost of a commodity in this country by six times (from $1/lb to $6/lb), we would be in par with China, meaning it takes 2 hours of work in either country to pay for 2 lbs of chicken.

The only problem, however, is that this is going to be very painful for our fellow countrymen. In the interim, I think our government should put more emphasis or even subsidize research and development.

We have so many scientists and engineers who are way ahead of the Chinese, and maybe the Japanese, when it comes to innovation. By providing grants to inventors, our country can then sell these resulting innovations to countries such as Vietnam, where labor is cheaper than China. Our country will be in a new business paradigm – producing IP and selling IP. And to get there faster, our govt needs to add at least 3 satellite patent offices, one in NY, Chicago and LA. These will expedite the whole patenting process while at the same having lots of people working and making money.

Matt, I had similar impressions…to the point I didn’t finish the video..

Here is a fair (my opinion) analysis…
http://www.andybrain.com/qna/2007/12/07/annie-leonards-the-story-of-stuff-review-and-analysis/

Irv….we CANNOT compete with labor costs of other countries; it is unfair! You see, America has built up it’s assets and prosperities from very hard work! We were the hardest working country! Now…we are reaping the rewards. As other countries export all to us, they do so as they strip the prosperities we earned.

Ofcoarse other underdeveloped countries will be cheaper in labor! We as a whole must protect the juicy economic cycle that WE BUILT!

Today, we are giving it away by buying all these imports. This insight I speak of is the whole purpose of tariffs which has always been for this reason. We have also got too “free” with throwing around these free trade deals. We must protect our own economic cycle more. The cycle WILL NEVER compare to an undeveloped country.

So what do we want to do? Do you want to give up all the American dreams our grandfathers worked so hard to build to make all economic cycles worldwide even and equal in value?

Jason….could you imagine if we all were farmers, family doctors, lawyers, accountants etc….I mean, if we played all parts ourself? We would screw up everything!

Just the same with manufacturing. We can’t do it all and never should but we look to give away 99% of our manufacturing base these days. The second sentence in a manufacturing conversation is about cheaper overseas.

If we don’t change the mentality there will be two jobs in the business of products. A top executive and a worker for Wal-Mart.

The rest will live on the streets or collect welfare. A country NEEDS MANUFACTURING JOBS TO SURVIVE! We can’t give all these jobs away…we now have to conciensciously think about keeping some with our next rounds of technology. We will not be able to get the old manufacturing jobs back, although I am bringing back a few jobs in the lost American trade of sewing.

The U.S. inner cities used to be bustling with manufacturing plants. Those plants left…went overseas. You tell me what is left in America’s inner cities.

See what I am saying?

This may seem really “out-there” to some of you, but there really is an easy solution… Just move the decimal point over one place on wages, debts, and purchase prices. Completely reverse all inflation in one quick sweep.

Ron, I understand your frustration with the rapid loss of manufacturing jobs in our country but I believe it’s futile to go against a powerful tidal force. Let’s take farming for example. Around a hundred years ago, it took about 10 people to harvest an acre of corn in a day. Today, with “combines”, one person can harvest 20 acres in one day! Such technological advance clearly caused the loss of a lot of farm jobs. And how about those mechanical “tree shakers”. Those caused the displacement of a lot of fruit pickers.

Car manufacturing- most welding are now done with robots that work 24/7?

Look at Japan. They used to manufacture those cheap plastic stuffs. Now it’s China, tomorrow maybe it’s Bangladesh.

We have survived all depressions, recessions and deflations, inflations, etc. These difficulties are cyclical.

If you look at history, those countries that did not adapt to technological changes usually are the ones that suffer the most. The labor union is an anachronism that worked in the past. Repetitive manual labor is cheap labor. It is for those countries that do not provide quality education to their citizens and don’t care about their citizen’s future. Manufacturing jobs do not require a person to think or be creative. They’re like robots, except robots can do those tasks better than an American, a Japanese or even a Chinese. The future is maybe in robotics or remote controlled vehicles. So we should get our citizenry educated in those fields. But training them to be like robots, NO!

China was once the greatest country in this world, they invented paper, compass, gun powder, and many other stuffs. Now they are making their living via cheap labor. Then there was Roman and Great Britain once almost dominated the world. Now where is British gunship? Given time, country or even world changes. Where does this country go? no matter you like or not, it’s mostly up to Nation’s leaders. The rest of us just play alone, flow upon.
Where the combined cost of manufacturing, shipping, and custom… is the lowest, the industry goes that direction.

I second what Tim just said, we don’t know what’s in our future. Tim how’s the new job coming?

I like this job better. I learn a lot from here and it’s a nice change to work with company that already sells something.

Irv…your not thinking right…that automation is making the U.S. competitive…that’s ok…automation has been rolling along for 200 years. Plastics now are competitive here because of more automation which employs engineers and alot of other people keeping an eye on things and lifting a few boxes, sweeping the floors etc.

Truth is some people just weren’t born the smartest around here…not being a wise ass…just the way it is and these people create families they have to pay for too.

We NEED jobs for these people or they collect welfare. Which do you want? We all can’t work at Wal-Mart.

The government may have to subsidize more manufacturing. It is better than unemployment and then all the costs are taken by the gov’t.

Besides…the world demands and wants American products! Just like we appreciate China, Swiss, German products etc. Imports are cool and interesting!!!

PLUS…having the facilities in our faces right here helps the inventors/product developers/engineers !!! When I see my manufacturer I look through all the stock and try for more inventions!!! Made two big ones last time I visited there!

No excuse. The U.S. is the world’s second largest exporter. We CAN make stuff here…but everyone talks about overseas for EVERYTHING…100% BAD mentality! All have given up on U.S. manufacturing because of the stampede like a bunch of oxen that don’t know where they are stampeding to in the first place! They just follow the ox in front of them.

My biggest problem with hiring was finding people to do the everyday tasks. Either they have a degree and are looking for high 5 figures, or they are criminals. We need more capable uneducated people as it is.

Ron

I wouldn’t just say out talking about oversea out sourcing is bad mentality. They have to do the right thing for their company, stock holders…
If there is more tax break or more incentive somewhere, we would need those same minds to turn the out sourcing trend back.

Tim…the bottom line is this, my belief. ALL countries have to make things. It is even like a duty to the rest of the world. This concept “makes the world go round” and keeps balance in the world economy.

This concept of mine even prevents wars!!!! As “balance” I speak of also relates to balance of world power.

China and India, Mexico can’t make everything for everyone. It will destroy economic and the power balances in the world; moreover the world won’t be so interesting.

I am seriously waiting for China to start turning down manufacturing and say NO! You lazy bums! Make it yourself!

The Chinese government is building incentives for white collar jobs now. They don’t want to build the manufacturing base and are even trying to scale back…for obvious reasons.

They now have the capital from manufacturing to fund white collar jobs figuring the next steps in technology….watch out…a surprise is coming…and when it does…let it be known that is what hard work gets you. Manufacturing is hard work…good for us all.

Tom is absolutely correct. If you have a product which is unique, patented and cannot be easily knocked off, you can manufacture in the U.S. and
set your price to profit. On the other hand, if you are in a competitive situation, you will be knocked right off the store shelves by products made at half the cost overseas. You would flat go out of business. Sad, but that’s the way it is.

Andrew… that is true in some cases. I talk a little louder because of the patent issue with my product. People don’t realize but I have a very historical breakthrough and I just don’t think an American breakthrough like that I should be running overseas. It belongs made here and exported with U.S. pride.

I did not make the invention, my country did as my country made me. I was trained by the best schooling in the world (the Catholic school nuns…they kick your ass..literally.. if you don’t remember your lessons)

We are more competitive than you think. I know people making jeans, pants and shirts in the U.S. and are very competitive. They cut out some of the middle men. This country has more middle men than anywhere else. Everyone wants to wheel deal and steal.

The trip from factory to consumer can be done here with distribution efficiency and the #1 tool for that is the internet!!!

Good points Ron. I too, like many others, don’t like the Made in China thing. Maybe, hopefully with guys like you and some creativity, the pendulum can swing in a positive direction for Made in the U.S.A. I’m all for it and behind your
concept. If that is your invention holding a motorcycle weight, that is awesome!!! Keep up the good work.

Andrew…we in this country VERY MUCH enjoyed all of China’s HARD WORK manufacturing for us! We enjoyed some extremely reasonable products in all our homes to enjoy.

I personally am very grateful for China’s efforts and give them great respect. In fact, I admire their whole culture and want to visit there one day. They were the first industrialized country!

Just the thing is we all have to make stuff. It is best for the “world to keep on turning” nicely.

All the guys in my inventors group came up to me at some time and said why don’t you make it in China. It’s just a 100% mentality that starts with the American inventor. I would like to say to them…why?…are our arms broken or something?

Americans just got lazy. Especially our teens!!!! We better change or else we are in trouble!!! We must work hard again! Build our work ethic! Unfortunetly though, it’s going to take a generation to get the hard working American ethic back.

I live in Central NJ. These teens WILL NOT WORK!!! They sit at home playing video games with no money in their pockets, but they still know how to make babies very well. This mentality will carry a generation and has spread already to the U.S. manufacturing base. I NEED good physical labor…makes a man…a strong man that knows how to work. We have forgotten that.

I used to RIP IT UP at manufacturing facilities when I was a teen. Worked HARD…went home tired and made money. If the workers in the manufacturing facilities were inspired like I was there would be no problem and we would be competitive. Today the worker in a manufacturing facility moves slower than a snail!!!!!!!!!!!

Ron…you’re getting lazy…you forgot:

Ron Komorowski
Inventor of Handi-Straps
www.handi-straps.com
MADE IN THE U.S.A.

Well, made in USA is making a comeback, and as fuel prices stay high, look for that to be a key factor in keeping jobs here in the USA, because it costs money to “SHIP” those products here from China. At the same time, China’s standard of living is increasing; And though labour is still and probably always will be significantly cheaper, it is nonetheless causing products made in China to be on the rise.

I agree with Ron. look after your own if possible I know different factors can influence your judgment but I feel the same with made in UK .We were good once and now we are also lazy . I want to help put the great back into Britain and am as passionate about this as Ron is. I tell my manufactures that we must work efficiently to control and prove that we can compete in this tough market place . If i am forced to make anything in china ETC. I will not be happy but it may be out of necessity.

I don’t know a lot about all the in’s and out’s of the economy and politics but my nieve opinion says,America is a family and you take care of family first! There are probably a half dozen homes sold every day in Phoenix where some one paid 2 to 5 million in CASH or more! Outsourcing feeds high level greed and greed is what got us into our current economic situation. I believe we are selling out america in exchange for higher profits for those who are already in the top 1% and thats just plain wrong. It’s not good enough to be a millionaire any more now all these guys want to be a Bill Gates. Nobody is worth 50 million a year I don’t care how smart they are.

I have delt with manufacturing in China and at home in the UK. China is cheap and quality can be anything from really bad to excellent. To find a good manufacturer in China and to make sure they do the job right you have to go there and see first hand.

There are easier ways to deal with China and that is get someone how knows how to deal with them.

As for getting things made in USA then one way to keep cost down and keep everyone happy is to get the parts made in China and assemble it in the USA. There are a few companies in the UK that get parts and tools made in China and then assemble or use China tools to produce UK manufactured goods.

In the U.S. we have humane safety regulations for manufacturing workers and for the products they make. We also have insurances and decent pieces of real estate to work in etc.

China has none of this and that is how their products can go so cheap but everything runs in cycles. One day they won’t do things so quick and work so cheap. They are not as cheap as 10 years ago.

We can’t compete here in the U.S. on everything but we can with some even if it is making just a couple components here or assembling here, maybe repairs or even just packaging or just inspections. I’d like to see something like that on most products and would not mind paying a little extra for that because after all, U.S. manufacturing dollars earned here just get circulated right back in the economy to find it’s way right back into our very own pockets one day.

A few years ago I was told I was nuts on my made in the U.S. stance but now people tell me I called it first. I knew the wave was coming to promote U.S. manufacturing again. If we could only promote our going down and digging for our own natural resources (that is U.S. manufacturing) then we’d be economically ok but our Federal gov’t wants to suck the Middle East dry….the grand master plan of the war. Then surprise surprise we have more than we will ever need in out reserves in Alaska alone.

Ron Komorowski
Inventor of Handi-Straps
www.handi-straps.com

This is a difficult issue. A BIG dilemma indeed.

Just keep in mind if you do go with China, try to email photos/images whenever possible in communicating about your product, rewrite exaplanations, add details and SAVE all communication (actually helpful tips with any man. partner) . If you time to market matters some times dealing with the US may make the process run smoother… maybe… But at least consider having someone on your side that can speak chinese and explain detailed product issues directly to the manufacturer and then communicate back to you. If it is plastics.. I have a great manuf. in China I am happy to recommend, haven’t worked yet with anyone in the US. Hope it helps, good luck.