my approach is very unscientific…for me chosing an idea to run with is much like buying an expensive pair of shoes at Nordstroms….it goes like this for me—-i want a cute pair of shoes, but they are too expensive…but do i really want them?….or is it because i’m there and they are so easily accessible…so i give it the ‘sleep on it’ test…it takes 30 minutes for me to drive to the mall, so it’s still a hassle to get over there….if i wake the next morning thinking about those shoes, and i think all day and if i want to drive over there, then it means i really like those shoes……ok, so this is like inventing….not only do i have product ideas, i need to wait for the one that really excites me, otherwise i won’t be able to sell it to someone else…

do you have a favorite in the pile?

Eva – that’s an interesting take on the subject :)

So you measure a product’s potential for success based on how excited YOU are because you could fully endorse the product to someone else. That makes sense.

But, just because you like it – does that mean that others will? Are there other factors that must be considered when making this decision?

This is going to sound really bad on my part, but my favorite is the one that has the best chance at success, plain and simple :).

I think most of my ideas are great, but that’s because they’re my ideas. I’m blinded because I’m their mother. All my children are beautiful :) haha.

But the fact remains, it’s all about the ching ching and the bling bling and whichever baby has the best chance at survival out in that cruel harsh world …. get to steppin little one :)

patrice, of course i take in consideration if other people would need the product…my whole method is products that solve a problem….as a mom, usually if i have a certain problem with a child, most likely other moms will have the problem…but if i’m not excited about the idea, i mean, really stand behind it 100%, then how the heck can i convey the need of this product…and please keep in mind, it’s just how i feel a product out….and ‘feel’ is subjective…you know which ideas really interest you….go for those first….take a vote in the envision team…everyone votes their favorite top three….see if there’s an obvious winner….good the have the team psyched about the same product as well…

and i don’t think you ever throw in the towel on an idea….you can put it on the back burner….and when you are dealing with other ideas, you’ll be surprised to see how much inspiration you can get with your other products for the ideas sitting….

Finally – A great “Inventing” question…..

My experience is that there is a very specific way the planets must line up on a product for it to have market viability.

One planet not lined up correctly and that’s it – game over. I don’t care how much you liked it, how smart your family said you were or how much money your dog told you could be made….. Just say “next”

Ok, but what are the “planets” that you are referring to Mark? This is the criteria that I’m talking about.

I guess I’m talking about the guessing game that goes on BEFORE you test it out in the market.

This is Pre-research, Pre-Prototyping, Pre-Anything. This is where you get out that peice of paper and pencil and start from SCRATCH!

What are some of the questions we should be asking ourselves at each level of the game? Does the idea make it from pen and paper to research stage? If so, why? What makes it from research to prototype?

But before all of this…shouldn’t we be thinking WAY WAY WAY ahead to save ourselves both time and money?

patrice, then you already know which product you need to work on…there’s no one absolute way to go about this…we are all different, and different things work for different folks..

The greater the need, the greater the potential.

“Likables” I think would be harder to fit in the marketplace and end up short lived.

The product idea that can meet more of consumer’s satisfactions, combined with both needs and wants, with the needs being the greater percentage, will (probably) have the greater potential and in my mind determines worth persuing.

Eva – I know we are all different, but I think we would all like to reduce the risk of failure by asking ourselves some general questions before we persue an idea.

Susan- I agree that a product’s strength can be measured heavily on how much it satisfies a customer’s wants/needs, but how do we as inventor’s know what they are?

Do we go by our own wants and needs like Eva says? I think that it is true that if I find a need for something that there will be others that will probably experience that same need – BUT HOW MANY OTHERS????

That IS the question.

I would want to persue the idea that satisfies THE MOST WANTS/NEEDS of the public so that I can realize a better chance of success and product survival.

How do I do this?

Hi Patrice! Did you see the thread I started asking a very similar question about a month ago? Don’t remember it offhand, but I got a list of questions/criteria on how to screen multiple ideas to better choose which one to spend time/money on.

Hi Mike!

I don’t remember that thread, sorry if I’m repeating your question. If you find the list, let me know. Thanks!

Patrice,

Great question as usual. Instead of focus groups there is an approach I would like to try someday. This approach would take some nerve because I don’t know how risky it would be. After building a proof of concept prototype and filing a provisional application I would like to put together a test market sheet. This would be similar to a sell sheet except it would have a few check off boxes asking if you would purchase this product if available and how much would you be willing to pay etc.. I would look for all the free listings I could find(like craigslist)and post the test market sheet. If your product is as good as you think it is then you would have to weight the chance of it being copied vs obtaining some valuable feedback in going forward. Assuming I can build my own prototype write my own provisional and put together a sell sheet I wouldn’t have too much invested financially. I think there is too much paranoia in the inventing community about ideas being stolen. After observing the difficulty other inventors have had trying to get products to market it’s not easily accomplished without hard work. I don’t know if this would make the process more efficient and speed it up or end up being a disaster.

Although Eva is correct that different things work for different folks – I would have to caveat that by saying in the process of product development there are several things that either work or they don’t.

I think it’s the $425 million dollar question and unless you can determine if your idea fits a nitch, that separates and stands out beside any other exsisting product, then your “need” for the product turns more into the “want” category.

Meaning…If you have discovered an idea that fits a need and it stands alone-you will have a greater chance of fufilling others needs also. How many? Only the consumers will determine that…better marketing, better sells.

If you have a product that is similar, then you will have hit the "want’ market as consumers make their choices based on the selection of yours or theirs.

Like the $425 million dollar idea that the gentleman who sold his “spin brush” idea to Proctor and Gamble, he hit the nitch for the need of an idea, with no other products out there like it…he was able to run to the Bank with it.

Bottom line…EN has presented a platform where I have learned…If the COMPANY doesn’t like my idea, then my only option would be try any company, or archive it.

Hi Patrice,

Long time no see. I trust all is well.

(Assuming research of prior art has been done and no prior art has been found.)

Criteria Gauntlet:
1. Workability (does it work?)
2. Manufacturability (can it be manufactured at a reasonably low cost?)
3. Patentability (How complex will the application be? NO LAWERS/Self written)
4. Marketability (Will the Target Market understand it? Is there a need for it?)

Every invention is driven by a theory. The theory, once proven, becomes the very essence of the patent. I don’t mean on a marketability stand point. I mean on a purely mechanical one, ie., “my inventive device does this, thus providing the desired result, etc…”.
I begin my elimination with this as the primary criteria. Does it do what it suppose to do and does it do it well. If I am not sure, then it goes back into the book of "Misfit Ideas ".

The ideas left over are screened for Manufacturability: then onto Patentability and then onto Marketability. What is left is a much smaller number of ideas to further eliminate.

Each Criteria is like a wall. Throw your ideas on the wall to “see if it sticks”.
(The “see if it sticks” analogy is from cooking pasta. If it’s not at least al dente, then it will not stick to a wall.)

Tom,
I have plans on doing the same:
“… a test market sheet. This would be similar to a sell sheet except it would have a few check off boxes asking if you would purchase this product if available and how much would you be willing to pay etc..”

But, rather than posting the “test market sheet” I would carefully select the individuals (not friends or family), have them sign a NDA/Confidentiality Agreement (face-to face) before testing. That way I can speak directly to the individual(s) and pick up on some non-verbals. For my product, I would want them to spend at least 3 or 5 days to evaluate the product. I also plan to film a quick Q&A with each test person for the “testimonial portion” of the presentation video that will be used when trying to obtain a licensing deal. At the end of the test period, I would buy them lunch, pizza and beer, or what ever.

Tom -

Thank you. I think that is a great idea to create a survey for your product before you dump tons of money and time into it. However, how do you determine which one of the 50 ideas makes it to the survey stage?

It costs $110 to file a provisional these days so I think you should have a preliminary list to weed out the others.

$110 a pop adds up over time.

You are right about the inventing community being overly paranoid about everyone wanting to steal their precious babies! Just as it’s so hard for us to get a product out to the market, it would be for them as well. And even if someone thought hey, great idea – they are probably not as educated as we are and we just drop it at “hey great idea I should try to market that”.

Mark – what are those “planets” that you keep talking about?

That’s the equation that I’m looking for.

There is no bullet proof equation for success, I know, but there have got to be some solid facts that help eliminate RISK!

Susan,

I know what you’re saying….I think that filling a need OR a want are keys to a strong product, but filling BOTH A WANT AND A NEED would really make for a strong product!

I think one of the methods in determining consumer reaction to new products would be a product survey and another would be actually putting test products on store shelves and watching how fast or slow they move.

These are wonderful methods to help reduce your risk of loss, but I’m way way back to the early stages of pencil and paper and choosing one of the 50…

JB,

Your list is a great example of the planets I was talking about. There are more than just those, and not always in that order – but it’s a great start.

dbl post

Jefferson,

All is well mon ami, et vous?

I like your checklist, but the first three are easily determined, the marketability question is not so easy to guess.

I think this is the part that I am stuck on – marketability!

Hi,Patrice,
Here’s Mike’s list from the Creativity thread under Measuring/Scoring your idea[Hope you dont mind,Mike]:

Some thoughts so far:
1, How big is the potential market?
2, How simple/complex is the idea?
3, What would it sell for?
4, How competitive is the particular market?
5, How clear are the benefits?
6, What is the potential profit margin?
7, How difficult/expensive would it be to tool up for production?

Any other good questions on how to refine would be appreciated!

I think these points and the ones below are all relevant.
I think also that to have ventured into inventing,you must have come up with ideas that then appeared in the market-that validated,to an extent,my involvement and instinct,in inventing.
I put the long-haul hat on,and ruled out the option of make-or break.
Immersion in the inventing milieu familiarises me with the necessary information,and informs my instinct.
I definitely think there has to be a personal thing about inventing-not obsession or paranoia-maybe fufillment,and doing it in an informed,real way adds to that.
Really,what I’m doing,is honing my instinct with the experience and information I learn from others and my own experiences.
I would say Patrice that you are developing a body of working information,and a sense of what it’s about,on top of your instinct for inventing.
I think you have to have a degree of belief, without being deluded,in your self and your capabilities.
[You’re probably going to rip my throat out for this]

Jefferson -

That is an interesting concept talking to consumers face to face in order to pick up on body language…at what stage were you thinking of doing this? Is this at the idea stage before prototypes and PPA’s?

How many individuals do you think you would need to interview in order to feel like you have a good sample?

Mark, I agree. I over simplified it.
Patrice, I’m having the exact same problem.

P.S.
All is well in my little corner of the world.

Adam – thanks for digging that list up. Those are some great questions Mike. I would like to see if I can create my own list based on your list and Jefferson’s…

Patrice,

For my particular product idea, The Test market sheet, interview/video comes after several (8 to 12) refined (as much as I can to the best of my ability) prototypes are complete and PPA submitted.

“How many individuals do you think you would need to interview in order to feel like you have a good sample?”

That’s a very good question. I think the process itself would hold the answer to that one. If I had to guess a number, it would be 12 to 20 peeps.

Excellent info Adam and great list Mike.

Thanks for digging that up, Adam. The thread had a lot of great additional questions/qualifications added to it by others. Worth going back and reviewing….
http://www.edisonnation.com/forums/13/topics/1339

I think Stephen Key’s idea about the benefit[s] of your idea are central.
Are the benefits outstanding?Do they have a big appeal?Would they appeal to a large customer range/base?Can the product which produces those benefits be easily produced at an acceptable cost?

So Mark,

If you have a list of planets, can you please share them?

So what about this list:

1) Does it function properly (will it work?)
2) Does it satisfy a need/want?
3) Market Size?
4) (Cost to Mfg + Packaging costs) – price = Profit/Loss?
5) Is it unique? Clearly different from the rest?

So I took some things from Mike’s list and some from Jeffersons and I combined some things.

But there are things on both of their lists that I left out such as:

Patentability – how easy is it to write myself. I think that is a question that could be added or left out. I think I would hire someone to write it for me and that would have to be after I’ve had a PPA and the product has proven itself to me.

How simple/complex the idea is – could be left out of the list I think. I think that shouldn’t have too much of a bearing on how successful the product will be unless we’re designing things that Matthew Whitney would create…not many of us here would so let’s move on..

How clear are the benefits – I don’t think should have a bearing on whether or not to persue a product because you would just have to beef up your marketing and sales tactics. It doesn’t mean it’s a bad product, it just makes the sell side tougher.

How difficult/expensive to tool up for production – I guess this would/could be a deal breaker but I’m thinking not really. If I thought I had a million dollar idea the start up tooling costs will be a concern but not a show stopper.

Anyone care to rebutt the above points left out of my list?

Are there any additions to the list you think we should add?

I think you’re on the right track, the only problem I have is the need for context. I think your answer would be different if you were pursuing a licensing deal vs. a biz to run yourself. Plus, what is your status: are you working a job during the day to finance your invention? Are you going to quit and go full time? How limited are your funds? Are you going solo or will you recruit partners? Etc.

For me, I’ve been looking to focus on very simple concepts- both to design, manufacture, explain benes, etc. I’m trying to get some smaller, simpler licensing deals going that will afford me more time/money in the future for pursuing the more difficult ideas.

I’m new myself so what I plan to do in the next few weeks is list every idea I have that i feel is worthy of marketability. From the best down to the rest! Fortunately I have thousands of dollars that I can invest in doing just this. I think a single idea lowers your chances of making it to retail. Hundreds of ideas sounds to me like it would be the right way to go. After all, just cause a hundred people like one idea, doesn’t mean it will even come close.

Anyone think I’m right?

I agree with you,Mike.
There are no hierarchies in that there are markets for most things.What’s important is to get into the mix.
Working out of a limited budget is a bit hairy,and the burn-out risk is high,with expenditure costing more than money.
Am I digging a bigger hole?or am I diggging my way out?Am I nuts?

I can say that my perceptions are the basis for my invention,and the rest of the process at this stage is seeing whether the perceived benefit[s] can be practically and economically realised.

I’m stuck on Stephen Key’s[at the risk of being tedious] idea of an inventer creating benefits,and whether the vehicle of that benefit is viable,practically,economicaly,market-wise,and consumer-wise,i.e.,the invention is the carrier of the benefit,and the ratio of carrier to benefit makes the benefit worthwhile/viable-the carrier doesn’t block out the benefit.

Patrice,

I think the complexity of the idea and the expense to tool up for production seem like they can be deal breakers. A plastics guy came to one of our local inventor’s meetings. He passed around the molds for some of the items that they made. The molds themselves can be quite complex for a product that may seem simple. He stressed to us that working your idea to keep the mold as simple as possible was incredibly important. The prices increased dramatically when the mold had to be complex. Add that to the price of the plastics and you can price yourself out of the market.

Mike – that’s a good point. I guess what you’re saying is that if you don’t have the time or money to invest in your product, you should choose a simpler product design and also cheaper materials, and packaging too?

But if you’re just licensing the product, what does it matter how complex or expensive those things are as long as you’re price covers your cost and you’re making a profit in the end? You’re not managing anything if you’re licensing the prodcut right?

So does product complexity and cost really come into play based on your method of bringing the product to market???

Rick – I don’t think it’s a good idea to just throw out every idea you have just because you can afford to.

I think if your goal is to bring a product to market in the quickest most efficient manor, then I think you should narrow your selection down and focus all your efforts into just a few great ideas. Especially if you’re new to this like I am, working on several projects at one time can be overwhelming and work against you…I think.

That’s just my opinion.

Adam – I think the benefits of the product are what sells the product and that’s because the benefits are satisfying a need or a want.

I think we’re saying the same thing here.

Margaret – very good point! Just because a product looks simple in design doesn’t mean that it’s simple to manufacture…I can see that.

So it boils down to cost when we talk about product design and it’s complexity.

I think we can merge that into the cost line of the product in our list?

Hmmm……Let me see – I don’t want to hijack Patrice’s thread so I’ll keep it short.

Patrice – I would leave all those things on the list…..they are all things that need to be taken into consideration when making the GO / NO GO decision. And that’s really what the development of a list is. It’s a set of criteria needed for a successful retail product.

Rick – First of all welcome to EN! I do have to say after many years of inventing and product development I find it far more effective to develop a set of criteria and use it to dial in a few inventions/products. What I think you will find over time is that it will help you to refine a process that you then apply to each project.

Margaret – The mold thing is SO important …and he was 100% right. The time to think about the manufacturing process of a product is way back in the invention stage. As for my list of planets…..sorry …you have to wait for the book. JUST KIDDING……but I think it’s better to come up with them as a group in case I missed one. ?

I’m not sure, but I think the root of Patrice’s question assumed a product development path vs a license path.

Yeah,Mark,that did my brain in about 5 mins ago.I had responded to a totally different question.

Mark – honestly, I didn’t have a particular method in mind when thinking up the list. I thought all those items could be applied to both methods?

Patrice,when you talk about benefit,are you talking about the core function,the inventive leap,that is realised in the structure of the invention?
With subsidiary benefits being the ease of delivery of that benefit,and the cost and ease of production of the means of delivery,among others,with respect to retailing the benefit.

Well….although they apply to both because both paths end in a retail product. However, in a product development path the onus is on the inventor to ask and answer each one. In the license path that responsibility gets moved largely to the manufacturer.

Adam – yes I am. I guess that’s how you come to an invention? If there is no benefit or need or want to the invention then the consumer has no use for it.

Think about a product or an object that has absolutely NO VALUE OR BENEFIT AT ALL.

I honestly cannot think of anyting off the top of my head. If anyone can think of an example, let me know.

I guess my point is, everything in this world – every object or thing can have a benefit to it. It’s what the consumer perceives it as having benefits is the key to the equation, isn’t it?

One man’s trash is another man’s treasure….

So my point is, all objects or inventions have benefits to it…but HOW MANY OF US ACTALLY SEE THE BENEFITS TO IT?

It all boils down to what you like and what you don’t like. How many people like it and how many people can you MAKE like it!

What makes a product a truly good invention?

The fact that a lot of people like it? Is that how we measure success? Well, yes that’s exactly how we measure success.

So EXACTLY HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE TO BUY YOUR PRODUCT FOR IT TO BE CONSIDERED A SUCCESS?

If just one person bought your product, would it be a success? 10 people? 100?

Is success reached at the point the product reaches store shelves or is it how high your sales are or units sold?

I agree with what you’re saying,Patrice.But you,as the inventor,are the first,hopefully,to identify a benefit,and then,unless the invention is truly revolutionary,there will be a range of similar products in the market,so your newly identified benfit has be an obvious improvement to consumers who buy that kind of product.

So in deciding which idea to go with,you are looking at,among other things,the size of the market for that kind of product,and also the relative significance and obviousness of the improvement,the ease of use,the cost of production,the price the market will bear,and the possible mark-up,having established it’s novelty,and patentability.

Surely an invention/new product is successful on the basis that it performs better,and is affordable?

In reference to Stephen Key’s philosophy when measuring the appeal through an outstanding benefit statement, the potential Company licensing your idea will make the selection for you and in the event your product idea holds any merit.

In that case, that is if that option is appealing to you, the bigger challenge is finding the appropriate market channel and inventor friendly company that fits your concept.

When making a selection on which of my ideas holds the greater value, it’s based on researching and comparing the companies’ exsisting products and the potential customer base when making a consideration. For an example, I have some ideas that I am convinced will fit the QVC customer base, but I will have to produce it myself, not having a clue on how to approach it or having the finances, that idea waits for the right door to open.

So in the meantime, I find licensing a better way of creating finances to eventually afford the tooling, manufacturing and packaging for those bigger ideas that will need more money to produce and then hopefully someday provide a greater profit margin.

So in my case…“Holding them” is for product development or the big ideas…and “Folding them” is for licensing or the smaller ideas.