Oh and walmart offers everyone 4 dollar prescriptions on any generic drug every day, every one, no insurance required.

If it is so bad here, why do canadians and mexicans come here to seek our health care? They have no insurance, yet, seem to get the care they seek. Mexicans i understand, lol, but canadians, they have that free care..????

good lord, ultra liberal media, that pretty much explains it.

Man, why should I pay for roads when all I want to do is ride my bike on dirt paths. Why should I pay for a military when I can protect myself with my own gun. The govt is robbing me of my freedom! Why should I be forced to pay for health care when I can take care of myself. Screw everyone else! Divided some stand but united we all fall!

dont get me started on roads

Why should the road to my mansion be paved with the same grade of asphalt that runs in front of some shack in New Mexico. I pay more taxes, I should get a better road. The govt doesn’t pave the backroads of my ranch which help in creating my wealth and thereby contributing even more taxes. What does that guy in New mexico contribute?

Damn right Linda,.. all Joe shmoe’s should get sent to the end of the line when real Americans walk in! Yeehah! Halleluyah!

No wait, I’m wrong, I should pay for my own road and that guy in New Mexico shouldn’t get one. I’m so confused. I’m trying to see the republican point of view but no matter what angle I attack it from there’s never enough for me and too much left for everyone else.

do i smell a little socialist sarcasm?

The Scottish Rite is a charity and sick citizens shouldn’t have to beg for charity anymore, we are not in medieval times. Health care and education and defense are exactly what our tax dollars should be for.

the thing about sitting next to joe, is, we already do. But as it is now, we pay for ourselves. If the government takes over, we pay for ourselves and joe.

If your child needs scoliosis treatment, artifical limbs, etc, they do a lot, maybe you ought to look it up because you didnt do your homework, this is where they go, rich poor black white insured uninsured…Shows you dont know it all…lol

No just plain old sarcasm. Sarcasm’s great because it staddles both sides of any argument. If you disagree with it, I just say I was kidding. If you agree with it, then I was being serious. The only folly you see in my argument is the one you already knew was there. How is paving your own road any different than paying for your own healthcare yet you can see the folly of paving your own road or paying for your own military. I’m sure you can see the corruption of the healthcare industry and the corruption that surrounds the free market. I believe in capitalism but the one that has evolved with all the bandages it has acquired over the years with the safeguards against exploitive human greed. I don’t begrudge anyone who can out compete me but I don’t try to permanently cripple or kill those who can’t. The only threat to capitalism is a capitalism that uses wealth to acquire and hold power. Democracy can’t survive that because power is no longer shared. You don’t have to build a society on the bones of the weaker even though that is nature’s way. The American way is giving everyone a chance not putting the masses in economic slavery through bills they just can’t pay. That attitude only encourages socialism so I’d say republicans are the real anti-democratic socialists ironically enough.

And what should drive me to better myself? I work hard to get the things i want, is that wrong? Say you work on your invention day and night, it makes it through and when the check comes, it gets split into shares for everyone in your town, even ole Joe who could work, but why should he when he can reap the same benefits you do without working..?

But he doesn’t, he gets way less, he sees you and wants more. He either does it by robbing you or he sees an opportunity which spurs him on. Why is any money seen as the same money. Why is socialism equated with robbing all incentive. It doesn’t except maybe in France where they just siesta all day and everyone parties non stop. Do you really believe that because that would lead to bankruptcy.

and everyone loves the french dont they….lol

I love their freedom fries.

Not one single time did barack obama state that healthcare would be free, get your facts straight do your research before you rant, one less crazy on my friends list, there are better places to talk about these things, I think fox news is calling they need another unbiased reporter lol.

I lost my train of thought now with well you know . . .

wow, i think my train of thought is gone too….geeze

Michael,
You are right, he did not say it would be free. He is Robin Hood, He will take from the rich and give to the poor. Of course his definition of rich keeps on changing.
If someone doesn’t know the difference fron socialism and free markets, then I don’t think anything anyone says will help them. If you believe in socialism then why would you put your inventions on EN. Why don’t you move to a socialist country and give them your inventions. I assume you can also protect yourself from a nuclear bomb or an Army with your little shot gun. There is no need for the military, because you can handle them. I assume you do not need jails, laws, police, hospitals, doctors, or any other profession becuase you can handle it. We are all going to live in peace, sing songs and be happy for the rest of our lives. Sorry Ralif, I edited this after I continued to read, I thought you were for socialism.

A quick question, other than it being illegal – why would someone buy home or auto insurance, but fail to buy health or life insurance. Is your home and vehicle more important than you or your families life? I would think health and life insurance would be one of the first things you will buy. You really do not need a car, just move closer to work or ride the metro or any other type of public transport. You are not required to live far from work. Why doesn’t the government make it illegal for you to be more than 3 miles from your job, so you have no reason to need a car. You can be forced to buy your food on line.

Derek,
No one is saying that we should not help people that are not able to help themselves. We are saying that no one should be forced to give to those who choose not to help themselves. The people, not the US government has contributed more money to other countries and people than any other country. THIS IS FACT! So, why don’t you ensure your people in Austria give a little more to equal what we have given. It is alright for you to tell us what to do with our money, but it is not ok for us to tell you.

For greater good, whose greater good are you talking about. If it was not for the US, Austria would be owned by another country. Do you know we are the only country that has never taken control of a country it conquered in war? Do you also know we are the only country that pays to rebuild a country reguardless if we were at war or not. We are also the main contributer to the UN. The UN would not be able to survive without us.
I know you are proud of your country and that is good, but do not try to tear down my country to make yours look better.
Your country may be able to pay for health care, but it doesn’t help anyone else like we do, and spends less on more important things. WE ARE FOR THE GREATER GOOD AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN. Austria needs to take notes.

He promised ‘health care reform’, which kind of left it open to whatever, leading people to believe in getting health care similar in other countries, like Canada and the UK. I guaranty that a lot of his supporters were thinking, ‘yeah free health care if i vote for him’.
I had written a long response and then my internet went out, but it was to the effect that if your engine goes out in your car, you get it fixed, why is it different in paying a doctor to fix a sore throat? People just hate paying a doctor, why is that. I agree that for most things they charge way too much, my son had his tonsils out a year ago to the total of over 8000 and it was just a day surgery.
I have not said i don’t agree something has to be done, i just don’t think turning it over to the government is the answer. I am a little excited about a new clinic that opened up in our tiny town. My daughters boyfriend had to go today for a sore throat, they took him in after a call on the same day, they charge 60 for the first visit and 30 after that and you dont have to have insurance. If he gets a prescription, he will run to walmart and get it for 4 dollars, no insurance needed.
Derek, I’ve cringed at numerous comments like you and others make regarding selfish Americans and the way you think we think. I’ve come to the conclusion that most foreigners are just jealous of our way of life and well, just cant believe how good it is over here. Its great to be an American.

AutraLia Alvin,.. Plus Derek has said Aussie many times,.. pay attention.

william ricely, play nicely…..

Ok Hahaha! :) (Nice one Linda:) … But Derek from Australia says we should share our taxes for the greater good and I agree with that. But basically what Ralf says about the balance of money and power is goin’ on. Cuz we have the Democratic party whose constituents are made up mainly of poor or working class citizens that say let’s all work together, cooperate and help each other out. Then we have the Republican party which is made up of mainly upper class rich citizens and wanna be’s that pretend to be upper class who are spoon fed what to say by the real rich people in control who say, forget that, everyman for himself, I’ll keep what I got and u keep what u got, hands Off mine! (which is a wonderful approach for those that already have). And then they set up the system to keep it that way, even though many of them didn’t earn squat much of their wealth and fancy educations were handed to them on a silver platter by their rich parents, who got it from their parents and so on and so forth. It is “The System” and it is economic slavery and it needs to be changed.

William,
You are so negative about everything. You have time to spread your hate, but have no time to improve your situation.
The system as you want to call it is how America was founded. Each person is in charge of their own life. I guess if you are a democrat then you are poor and you care about everyone, if you are a republican than you are rich and want to keep all your money to yourself. I am not rich and nothing has been handed to me. My Dad and Mom never graduated HS. My Grandfather died at 36, and my dad was 17. He had to quite school and work so his mother, brothers, and sisters had a roof over their heads. People did not look for the government to help them out back then they took responsibility for providing for themselves and they survived. You have proven to everyone that you are too lazy to do anything for yourself. You also want to blame everyone else for what ever misfortune has ever happened to. STOP WHINNING!
Let me break it down Barney style for you. Lets say you own a roofing company. Now your roofing company does roofing jobs better and faster than anyone else. You are also cheaper than the competition. Now a total of ten roofing companies work in your area. Five of the other companies are not making it, because their work is sloppy, they take too long, and they charge almost double what you charge. They complain to the government, and the government tells you that the other companies are not as good as yours, so you must change or give up over half of your profits to them so they can stay in business. If you decide to change rather than give up half your profits that means you must work slower, with cheaper products, or you must charge twice as much. Now the other companies figure out they can buy even cheaper products, take even longer, and charge even more. Now, the government comes back to you to change. The point productivity is not being rewarded. This country use to stand for freedom. The sky is the limit, but you control it. Is it hard-YES, but the harder it is the sweeter is the victory
Live is not fair, deal with it and instead of blaming other people do something about it.. I have given you a chance to contact me, because I may be able to not only help you, but help others. You are more worried about me making a profit off of something than you actually accomplishing something. I can not make you contact me, or make you do something you do not want to do. But, do not complain if I make more money than you.
Of course you probably will not take steps to improve yourself and have something else negative to say. I do not even have to direct a comment to you and you get defensive.
Think before you respond. If you are going to continue to be negative, do not bother to contact me. People who succeed in live are the people who have a positive outlook on life and do not shut an open door.

Government never pays for anything. The government takes the money from people in taxes. The people pay for everything. The majority of the people in the US do not want this. If they do not want this, then why should it be passed. Lets think and not let our heart get in the way. In a democracy the government is suppose to do the will of the people.

When the power of love outweighs the love of power the world will know peace

Unfortunately, that will never happen. In the real world, people want to kill you just because you are who you are. In our own cities people kill people for almost anything. I do not know how many times I heard someone was killed, because someone wanted their shoes. How do you inject love into someone like that, when they have no respect for someone’s life.

U start at kinder garten

First, beautiful baby. With the violent games, movies, etc, and the lack of a healthy family or family values I hardly believe we or any other country could.

Obama promised to end the war, since he had no experience in any military workings i believe he found it to be very different when in command, obviously. I worry that he will do as Clinton did and weaken our military giving the middle east another chance to hit us. He has found out going over there and trying to make nice does not work. Middle easterners do not think like us, live like us, pray like us, etc. In their eyes we are evil and need to die. If it were just that we were over there to take their oil, Obama would have pull the troops out. But instead, he sends more. I believe that all this health care garbage is just a smoke screen, taking away attention that he cant end the war. Don’t you think that since there is a guy in office that the world held their breath for because he was going to end all suffering that Bush started, wouldn’t you think he would have done it already if he could? Could it be the world isn’t ready for the truth? And Derek, you sound just like the english I’ve chatted with over the years, what do you guys do, sit around and blame all world suffering on the US? First off you need to look into how our government works, it isn’t just one man making the decisions. Having a republican in office doesn’t mean he has republican power, Bush was republican, but the senate was majority democrat…

Thomas Jefferson

The truth being, as Eisenhower pointed out, that we are in the grasp of the military-industrial complex where people in control of greed enslave the world for their own benefit. There is no need for a central control for a conspiracy to exist, all it requires is like-minded individuals performing like-minded deeds, much like a swarm does. BTW, I’m glad you didn’t leave our “other” family after all and submit to those who want to maintain the purity of the forum at the expense of liberty. You don’t have to be a republican to value liberty above all else.

as long as everyone just discusses and keeps it nice, why not? Its below freezing outside, i have a cold, PMS and am pre menopausal. Sitting quietly making nicy nicy just isn’t in the cards for me this week. My invention prototype is sitting out in the yard frozen and delayed, another invention is still working in my head. ..lol. There is nothing wrong with a civil discussion even if all the participants dont agree. What kind of discussion would it be if we all agreed….
And, i dont call myself republican BTW

Ok, I’ll bite, libertarian? I forgot, as Kierkegarrd said, “When you label me, you disable me.” Meaning once you pigeon-hole someone, you can discount their entire point of view.

not really that either. All parties have good ideas, i’m just a combination of them all minus the bad ideas

Derek,
You must be living in your own little bubble. The terrorist will continue to kill, they do not want a truce, and never did. What would you suggest that you would give to someone that just wants you dead. Would kill yourself just to please them?

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, ¹⁷⁵⁹

Did you know that it was Clinton who coined the phrase, weapons of mass destruction. Most people put that one on Bush and criticize him for it. But, he was just following what he inherited from the Clinton administration. Remember Clinton bombed that aspirin factory thinking weapons of mass destruction were being made there?

Derek,
Before you send me something that somebody wrote, make sure you know who they are and what they are trying to achieve. Maybe you should dig a little deeper and know who Madam Albright is and what she believes in.

Derek,
I always like a good debate, but I am still waiting on one from you. If you want to debate me than you are going to need to do some research.

Help me understand why you are so obsessed with this. Like i said, I’ve been on UK forums where they attack Americans there too with the same arguments. And they don’t stop. They go on and on, mainly posting stories they found on the internet to prove their point. Until it reaches the conspiracy theories.
What drives a person to go all out like this, and this time in a room full of mostly Americans? I would never go into a forum and do this, i will voice my opinion when the forum title is in the question. But really, we are not the minority here, not wanting the government to take over our health care, it didn’t work when Clinton tried, it may or may not work this time.
I learn from real life, keeping my ears open, weigh what i hear and see. I’ve got this joke saying i love to say, “If you read it on the Internet, it must be true.” Linda…………., you can quote me on that one….lol

I like english horse people…lol…Its kind of a long story as to why i found myself on english forums, starts with our college daughter dating an english golfer at her college. My sister who travels around the world, me tagging along sometimes, said to me, “English people are hard to get along with and they will not like you.” No explanation, just, my personality will not work in the English community. So, thinking i may someday have english grandkids, i sought out the english community to chat with. Found myself on a dog forum. Not a good idea, although i’m an animal lover, i have dogs. I cannot talk dog talk all the time. Posted a rodeo youtube and it was all downhill from there. I got kicked off. Found a english horse forum and i got along with 75% of them. The other 25% seemed to want to blame the worlds problems on Bush and Americans. Luckily, i had a few take up for me and today I’m still friends with them, one family even invited me to stay with them on one of my trips to London, where i did and found them a regular family with the same problems americans face.
I got on a english green forum, was kicked off there pretty quick. Seems all their problems started with americans too, i was the only american in that forum and although i never once said a bad thing towards them, i got bombarded and i never got out of the defense mode and then i got kicked out….lol…
Your arguments are the same ole song and dance. I’m having flashbacks of forum fights where I’m surrounded by ultra liberals who seem to have an agenda of changing history.
I was talking to my husband this morning telling him, here we go again kind of thing and he said, “If we were in Iraq to control oil and take it over, we’d have it already.” He along with me believes that what is happening over there is for the good of the world whether it be keeping the oil in the right hands. If it were a Vietnam and the world was right in hoping Obama getting elected into office would end it, why did he send more troops? Could it be the world needs us there?

Derek,
If you have no security, then what good is having free health care. Please use some common sense. Long weekend – can not play anymore. I will most likely be back on Mon. If I get a chance to respond during the weekend, then I will.

I have better things to do then to see a movie with hidden messages. I guess a movie should make me change my whole life, like it has changed yours. Life is just like a movie.

Can you tell me what happened in the war games between Australia and USA at Shoal Haven?
Let me guess,you think Australia won a war game, so maybe your country can beat ours in an actual war. HAAAAA HAAAAA HAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That was funny.
We teach your military. I have personally witnessed this and have taught personnel in your Army CPR. Your Army has learned everything from us, while they also purchase our weapons we no longer use, because they are out of date. We not only armed your Army, but we feed them, sheltered them, and even medically cared for them. I guess you missed it when I told you I personnally attended to the care of personnel from your Army when I was in Kuwait.

STOP TRYING TO MAKE THE UNITED STATES LOOK BAD!

Painful wait for care
by Luke McIlveen
February 17, 2005 Herald Sun (Australia)

DELAYS in emergency departments are risking lives: one in six Victorians suffering conditions such as chest pains is forced to wait more than 10 minutes for treatment.
And one in five awaiting elective surgery for painful or disabling ailments is forced to wait more than three months.
The most urgent elective cases in the past year were treated within the standard 30 days, but only 79 per cent of category two patients were seen in the standard 90 days.
Department of Health figures reveal bed and staff shortages.
The Health Services Union blamed a lack of staff and inadequate government funding.
It has led to a campaign to encourage people with minor ailments to see GPs, to take the pressure off public hospitals.
The Department of Health said all patients needing resuscitation were treated immediately.

At least you will get CPR when you need it.

Health Issues
May 5, 1999
Health Care Rationing Is Increasing In Australia
Health care rationing through hospital waiting lists is increasing in Australia, says Steven Schwartz. And public patients can’t get many of the drugs available in the U.S. and Europe.
According to a January 1999 report by the Perth Metropolitan Health Services Board:
The majority of seriously ill patients in West Australian public hospitals were not operated on within accepted benchmark times.
More than half the patients wait two months or longer for their operations, while some wait a year or more — and there are similar waits across the nation.
Many of those kept waiting for months are Category 1 patients whose surgeons say it is necessary for the operation to be performed within 30 days.
Today, government pays about 70 percent of all health care costs and private insurance pays another 13 percent.
When Medicare, Australia’s publicly funded health system, was introduced in 1985, about half the population had private health insurance.
By 1997, the privately insured rate had fallen to only 32 percent; by the end of 1998 it had fallen to around 30 percent.
Insurers are required to charge all policyholders the same “community-rated” premium — which attracts sicker policyholders and raises costs, encouraging the healthy to drop coverage.
Australia spends 8.5 percent of gross domestic product on health care — exactly the average for countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, omitting the United States — but costs are likely to rise, says Schwartz. For example, expenditures under the public drug benefit plan have doubled in the past six years, from AUS$1.5 billion to $3 billion.

FREE HEALTH CARE IN AUSTRALIA AT WORK!

The news articles in Canada, England,and France get worse. Of course, I only use their own news paper articles or blogs.