Hi Don
Just so you know I have no intention of writing the non provisional myself. While I feel confident I was able to produce a sufficient provisional, (if anything I was too thorough) I do understand the importance of employing the expertise of a professional. Also I know the OED’s hands are tied. They seemed frustrated they were unable to help me. I guess I was just shocked at how ineffective some of our gov’t agencies are at actually protecting the public. I think some of the rules need to be updated or changed. I do intend to follow through with the law enforcement agencies so there is at least a record of my case in hopes it will help to stop his criminal activities. Also I want to add that at first I felt sorry for him. I thought he must be experiencing some terrible problem to have caused him to behave this way but when I read his revocation notice and realized he had been doing this for years I just decided to do what I could to put him out of business so he could not cheat anyone else.
That’s all behind me. I am sorry to hear about your experience, I cannot even imagine having someone help me in such a generous way and then not compensating or even acknowledging them for their work, it seems that door swings both ways. I guess you feel it would compromise your ethical standards in some way to reveal the name of the agent/atty who “bilked” your aforementioned client especially since your knowledge of their dealings was second hand through the client, but I do wish there was a resource where the information could be collected and provided, not as a retaliatory gesture, but simply to prevent others from experiencing the frustration, stress and financial loss that occurs as a result of this type of fraud. I know my invention has a great potential for commercial success and am not letting anything stop me. I think with every experience that we judge as bad there is always a hidden benefit, if you choose to look for it. I will be seeking a professional to write the non provisional and would love to have the opportunity to speak with you if you are interested when the time comes. Since I did file a very thorough provisional, I am hoping to find someone who will take what is useable and build on it for a fair and reasonable rate. I am currently focused on raising investor funds to complete the patenting process, both US and foreign. It would be helpful to get a better idea of what the costs will be so I can focus on a specific goal. If you have some interest in submitting a bid to work on my project please provide me with your contact info.
Thanks for writing
Peace
Misha

Misha – Three quick points:
1. I’m so glad to see you now as the Phoenix rising from the ashes. We all know experience can be the best and often most brutal teacher. (Also, I’m happy to see you overcame that annoying strikethrough habit ;-) Thanks for sharing your story to the benefit of others on this forum. On the other hand, writing your own patent applications is risky (though there are some among the contributors who seem to have mastered it at least to some extent…plus, filers increasingly rely on some really good patent-authoring software).
2. OED, from some viewpoints may seem ineffective but, trust me, practicing members of the US patent bar take OED very very seriously. Even the most inane crank letter can prompt OED to tie the hands of the best patent practitioner.
3. Finally, w/respect to your previous patent agent, here’s an added twist to your story. [I won’t say (here) that it’s the same fellow, but…] I once voluntarily inherited a frustrated client who felt she was being bilked by her previous patent agent. I admit feeling genuinely sorry for the client – - so, for a bare-bones fee, I took on her failing case and prosecuted it through to patent grant – - even paid the USPTO’s patent issue fee. The twist is that she never paid…nor even acknowledged my letters.
Experience – - brutal. I’m over it. Really, I am. Really.
Happy Holiday to all.
Don Kelly

Hi Scott,
I did check with the state of Ca. and was told that because the state is broke they have cut all the programs that might have compensated me. I honestly do not know how I could have checked this guy out any more thoroughly but I am not resentful. Just wanted to try to do what I could to prevent someone else from going through this. It was very frustrating while it was happening but I am over it and am putting my focus and energy on moving forward. Thanks for the advice and kind words.
Misha

Misha,

I’ve experienced almost the same things you are going through. My lawyer’s been disbarred and has never offered to make amends for his damages. The state might assist you, read my other posts. You and I both made similar mistakes, putting trust in people that are not trust worthy. Time to forgive him and yourself for having made the mistake. It’s not easy to do and the guy doesn’t deserve to be forgiven, but you also don’t deserve to have live with a resentment. As you proceed with your venture you are going to make more mistakes in who to ensure your trust to. Each time will be a learning experience.

This is possibly the riskiest thing an inventor can do, to profit from an invention. It can be done, but it’s far from a painless experience for most of those that try.

Some here do make it seem like their path is all silky smooth and few if any bumps, but I’m sure that even they would admit they face challenges that took a few years off.

Misha, Don Kelly’s post got buried, but please read it again. It’s very good information from someone who has been on both sides!

Thanks to all of you who responded. I really appreciate the help and support I have gotten here. Lots of great input and suggestions!!! You guys ROCK!!!!
I have written and filed a provisional application myself after 16 months of being jacked around by this guy. Nothing he produced was useable. It was all worthless drivel. This might not seem like a big deal to those of you who write their own routinely but I have never done anything like this before and my invention is a system with many elements and different embodiments so it was complex and lots of work for a first timer. On the upside, writing an app for any of my other ideas now seems like a piece of CAKE!!!
I am confident I will be able to secure funding to complete the non provisional application and am really excited to have some level of protection in place and move forward!!!
FINALLY!!!
YEAHHHH!!! :)
That being said, this guy needs to be put out of business and the USPTO is apparently powerless to do anything except revoke his license. They cannot order him to refund me and based on the fact that he has recently filed bankruptcy due to other pending lawsuits, the civil attorneys I have contacted have told me there is nothing to get. I read his revokation order which is posted under the final decisions heading on the OED portion of the USPTO site (where I never would have found it had I not been directed where to look). Apparently he has been doing this and worse to inventors for years and his website is still up and running??
So in the interest of preventing another inventor from being scammed by this joker I have decided to provide his name. I have consulted with an attorney who has told me that as long as I am relating my own true experience it will not be considered slanderous.
We should start a thread either here or on another forum where people can post the names of unethical, unscrupulous patent agents and attorneys since the agency we fund (the USPTO) does not do so until it is WAY too late. The complaints that resulted in his revocation date back to 1994 and there are references made to the fact that he had been warned multiple times prior, for the same types of issues. I am attempting to work with the states attorney general in Ca. to at least make him pull the plug on the website. I feel a sense of responsibility to do whatever I can to keep this from happening to someone else. Wish the other people he cheated would have done the same. If I had known of the complaints I certainly would never have even considered working with him. He is a crook and he has no conscience. He clearly knew at the time he took my money that he would be disbarred and never had any intention of completing the application, much less prosecuting or seeing it through to issuance. As far as I’m concerned that’s the same as stealing. He also made an extortion attempt by email (brilliant!) stating that if I did not send him additional money (which he had not earned) he could prevent the issue of my patent. The USPTO was very clear that the only way he could do that would be to make a public disclosure of my invention however told me they were powerless to help with that as well. They advised me to file an app ASAP. (thanks alot USPTO) I understand they have to follow rules but I think maybe some of their rules need to be revised to offer more protection to the public who provide their paychecks! Luckily I got my app filed in time. Apparently if he had disclosed my invention (even with the confidentiality agreement he signed) it still would have prevented me from ever patenting my invention which I spent 5 years and a ton of money perfecting. Even though the patent office knew of his criminal extortion attempts?
His name is Donald W. Meeker and he is based in Newport Beach, Ca. He calls his business 1st patents
The forum won’t let me post a link because I am new here but his website is: 1st-patents.com
I also found out that one of the references on his site is written by a company owned by him???
I am glad this is behind me and I actually learned a great deal during the process of writing my own provisional. I think I did a good job (if anything I was too thorough LOL!) I am really excited to move forward and hopeful that I can find an honest qualified attorney to write the non-provisional app. I am going to provide the authorities with the information they need to get this crook I am moving on. I am going to put my energy towards seeing my product on the retail market!!! This guy is in my rearview!
Thanks Again,
Misha

Pro Bono Pilot Program in Minn. Helps Independent Inventors Gain Patent Council

http://www.uspto.gov/inventors/independent/eye/...

Follow this article in InventorsEye – Government publication

If you are not subscribed, you should be!!

One comment most often heard from independent inventors is that it costs too much to get a patent. What these inventors are saying is that they can’t afford the cost of getting competent legal service to assist them in the preparation and prosecution of their patent application. This message has been repeated over and over again in emails, phone conversations and personal contacts with inventors from all across the United States. We at the USPTO have discussed this need with different legal groups across the country and had not been given any positive encouragement as to the possibility of forming any type of pro bono legal service for inventors. That is until Under Secretary David Kappos discussed this problem with Jim Patterson of Patterson Thuente IP, in Minneapolis, Minn.

Cowboy Joe said:
“i hired a patent agent in the us and he made a mistake which led to all the claims being dis-allowed, i might have got a patent if it was done correctly.
funnily enough i am not bitter. life is a bit like that

nobody knows where their luck lies!!"

There are competent and reputable patent agents. Indeed, i believe the majority are reputable. I cannot comment on the “mistake” as I have no information and I’m not sure it was his mistake. Nevertheless, if the claims were not allowed a Continuation can be filed, if timely. The vast majority of patent applications are filed by corporations, and even corporations usually need to file continuation applications in order to buy additional office actions before the patent is issued (because the claims were not allowed for the initial application).

Ok I’m busted
it’s a secret code
LOL

And to think I had spen time trying to figure out some clever second meaning to you striking-through some sections and not others of the text. :)

oops!
It’s a dash I have a bad habit or using dashes instead of commas or periods in posts

dash

I think it’s a minus Greg.

:-)

Hi M M,

I’m curious what you do that accidentally creates strikethroughs. If you click edit on your last post, look to see what character is right before the word which in “which is great” and then same one immediately following disallowed. It’s maybe a :colon: or such. On this forum I know an asterisk before and after some text makes bold. Maybe a minus or underline is it or =equals= (testing a few)

Thanks

Hi guys
thanks for responding-I did all the checks described above and tried to do what Roger suggested above which is great advice-but I think this guy has some type of personal problem and probably nothing I did would have made a difference-I am curious br what mistake was made that caused your patent to be disallowed
I definitely will post his name here as soon as I can but I have to get my invention patented first as I am afraid he may try to compromise my confidentiality-
I am frustrated but not bitter-everything happens for a reason and I believe this is just taking me to something better
Have a great day!

One thing that I recommend to Inventors is to have the Lawyer send you drafts of everything they are writing, not wait and send you the final version. My reason for this is you have an opportunity to see what and how they are writing the legal document. It also allows you to make corrections and ask questions why they are making this claim and leaving this one out. Just because they are a patent lawyer does not mean they really GET your idea and all the things that need to be claimed. You can have a lawyer that has done a number of toy claims, but doesn’t know Jack about a hydraulic pump and how you are applying its function. Lawyers are like everyone else, they have areas they are very proficent and other areas they need help.
When I was working for Westinghouse and getting the Super Sleever (You can see it here http://www.rogerbrown.net/inventing/ )patented through their patent lawyer it was a challenge because the lawyer had not worked in the nuclear field and did not know the advancement I was making with this device. I had to take him out into the field and show him the product in action to finally have him GET it. Once that was done when I talked with him he knew where I was going and why. Don’t take for granted that just because they know how to write in patenteze they also understand your product and how it works and why.

i hired a patent agent in the us and he made a mistake which led to all the claims being dis-allowed, i might have got a patent if it was done correctly.
funnily enough i am not bitter. life is a bit like that

nobody knows where their luck lies!!

Misha,

since it was a patent agent, and perhaps not a licensed patent attorney in a state, this may be of little use to you. But, if he was registered to practice patent law in a state, then there is a “client protection fund”. You have to file a grievance with the states “attorney regulatory commission” and let them do their thing. It may take over a year, but if your grievance is found legitmate in their eyes. they will reprimand him and award you damages from the fund. This fund is overseen by the state, it is funded by all the attornies annual dues, but the state distributes it to clients that have been harmed and take disciplinary action at the state level.

USPTO handles disciplinary actions at a national level to make sure that a lawyer that is a black eye to the system doesn’t just relocate to another state and proceed to do more harm to others. The whole system is slow, and does allow people to be at risk in the interem, but it’s better than nothing I guess.

In order to help others not fall into this unfortunate situation, is there a checklist of places to search, call, email, etc to see if there is a potential problem before you hire an IP agent or lawyer? My first ideas are:

PTO agent/lawyer site (also call PTO and ask?)
BBB
General google search
RipOffReport.com
Public PAIR to see if prosecutions are still occuring
Local invention groups in the same city as the person

Google patent might help, but the delay until publication would seem to make it difficult. And certainly the delay to issuance would be even more so. I guess you could tally up the total number of issuances, to get an idea.

Most people might say to check references, but I’ve found that any reference given to you will be highly polished (if it’s real at all) and not representative of the person at all.

Thanks Fleta,
I appreciate the sentiment.
I am not giving up by any means-this is just a bump in the road-probably taking me to something better-that is the way I choose to see it-I have a distinct vision for my product and I know it will be successful!
I am somewhat torn as to how to proceed I am not interested it vengance I believe the patent agent probably has a serious substance abuse issue and he has some serious problems and I feel some compassion for that, my intention is not to ruin him and but I would like to try to recoup my losses and I definitely want to keep him from harming another hopeful inventor. I am actually more upset and very surprised at the reaction of the OED branch of the uspto who says they cannot order him to return my money they claim they cannot do anything about the fact that his website is still up they asked me to forward the recent invoices sent after his revocation wanting me to pay him for services he has not rendered and when I did they told me they could do nothing even though he is still operating in direct violation of their order-They have said I should forward all the info to the atty general and ask them to press charges for wire fraud
I really think their OED dept at the uspto is totally impotent and needs to be completely restructured to do what any licensing bureau is put in place to do which is protect the public from unscrupulous practitioners. Apparently it takes years from the date of the original complaint (or as in this case multiple similar complaints and he had been warned multiple times about his bad business practices prior to those) until there is a final resolution- so this had been going on for over a decade with no notice to the public. The OED claims that it would not be fair to the agent or attorney to publicize notice of complaints but I disagree-I think the attorney or agent should be allowed to answer and write a rebuttal to the complaint and let inventors draw their own conclusions. If I had been able to see the number and similar nature of the complaints against him I would never have chosen to work with him-The system is not in place to protect attorneys and agents but to protect consumers-The OED at the uspto definitely needs to refine their system- It seems the USPTO has a very effective billing process in place that allows them to collect cash from inventors-maybe it’s time for a more effective process to be put into place to protect those that fund their paychecks.
Anyone agree?

Michelle

Misha I truly feel empathy for you. The Patent process IS a difficult one but there should be joy along the way, I am sorry you have had to go through this. Good Luck (((hugs)))

Here is my opinion on what you should do since I am not a lawyer. Contact a lawyer and see if they would take your civil case on contingency. Contact the office of enrollment and discipline and let them know of his threats and his attempts to continue to do business. Ask them if there is any actions you can take against him with their backing since he is violating their directive.
Keep all emails, documents and other material he sends you for the civil suit. Do not respond to any of his attempts to get you to pay unless advized differently by a lawyer. Ask another patent attorney what can be done to fix the filing mess he has created for you. Since you acted in good faith the patent office should allow you to basically start over and file correctly.

Thanks for responding – I intend to proceed with caution and be certain I cannot be sued for slander. I do not believe he could do that but the last thing I want to do is make this worse. Once I have made certain that there will be no negative consequences I will post all his information. Don’t want this to happen to anyone else. Guess I’ll have to ask an attorney about my rights to salvage anything useable for what I already paid.
Misha

Hi Misha,

It sounds to me like you have a beautiful Civil Case against this joker, and an aggressive attorney would probably take it on a contengency basis, but like Kevin suggested, exposing the one who is perpetuating these antics would be great… and since he’s already been revoked, he doesn’t have legs to mount a retaliation.
And btw, record/save/date all his intimidation attempts (even dare him to carry it through)… which will certainly qualify you for Exemplary Damages when you drag his stupid a$$ to court.

Good luck!

Misha, it appears that you are providing basically a factual report on what happened, including public records of complaints and license revocation. While it is unfortunate that this happened to you, it may be useful to everyone if you provided the name of the agent so anyone else could use additional due diligence in approaching him.

Also, looking back at the posts, it seems like when you were at a lull in getting “action” from him, and you posted here, he suddenly made himself available.

Hmmm.

Just wanted to post an update-
After 10 months I still do not have a correctly written patent application-Had a twinge of intuition this week and got on the uspto site to search for him-could not find him on the lists of registered agents so I called the office of enrollment and discipline-His license was revoked in April.
He has complaints similar to and much worse than mine listed against him dating back to 2004-too bad it wasn’t posted sooner-Their site is not very effective at protecting the public as it can take years between the complaints and the disciplinary actions-so it looks like I am out all the money I paid him and the last 10 months were wasted. He is still sending me invoices and trying to collect the balance owed per our contract but the document is incorrect and incomplete so I have not paid yet-He was supposed to return all my materials and inform me of his revocation which was effective in early april but has yet to inform me of the revocation and is proceeding with me as if he fully plans to prosecute my patent (although before I knew of the revocation it took almost a month of emails and calls to get him to respond)
His website is still up and running waiting to lure more potential fraud victims. I paid him half up front and the only thing I have that is useable is some drawings and I have no way to be certain if they meet the uspto guidelines and requirements.
In the past when I have asked for a refund he has refused and when I told him I would walk away and just use anything I could of the drivel he has provided and he cussed me out and threatened to sue me if I used anything he did without paying in full-He has breached his contract -am I within my rights to try to salvage anything I can and get something for my money-Would appreciate any helpful response
thx
Misha

Michelle, I’ve travelled the same path and faced the same difficulties. You sound like you are telling my story. I forget the name of the movie but I kept waiting for the drama I faced to fall upon the windshield wiper guy. His story was a walk in the park compared to my challenges. My attorney has been disbarred from the state and is now under suspension with the USPTO.

I’ll skip the gory details since it does me no benefit to relive the outrage I felt for several years. My life goes on, and his is a shambles.

You have to have a great deal of courage to start this to begin with, and you will be challenged in ways you never imagined. That’s simply because you have never done this before. Face each challenge with determination and know that this is not going to be resolved overnight, it’ll be the most challenging job you may ever face so try and enjoy the victories over the small battles, and continue to face each new challenge with the strength you gained from the last victory… always move forward when and where you can…

Misha: As a long time champion of the US Patent System, I hope you and other forum readers aren’t discouraged by your experience. It’s very poor form for me to criticize the performance of other members of the US Patent Bar. So, avoiding that, my comments are merely intended to help you (Misha) and others w/the selection of a legal representative to help you cope with the daunting requirements of patent practice. (Caution: Doing it yourself is never a good idea in the long run, since the process of prosecuting a patent application is among the legal profession’s most challenging tasks – - even the most highly trained pros have difficulty with keeping abreast of ever-changing requirements and regulations.)

So, with NO intended reference to your current situation, my seasoned advice for others in this regard is as follows. My two-cents:
1. Choose your patent agent or attorney with care [e.g., ask for multiple references…call/email each reference and pose very candid questions relative to performance, responsiveness, timeliness, and charges – - and you might also want to ask about traits like client-friendly, courtesy, openness, passion or other characteristics that are your personal favorites].
2. Keep in mind that each of us [agents/attorneys] making our living as a US Gov. licensed professional, is naturally wary of having his/her license revoked for abusing or misleading clients, or because of other conduct or competency related matters. We are keenly aware that a client’s simple letter to the USPTO’s Office of Enrollment and Discipline (OED) can launch an instant OED inquiry that may – - at the minimum, result in an immediate refund…and, at worse, possibly send us to an early retirement – - or grocery-bagging, slathering mustard on buns, sweeping gutters and such.
Sometimes clients, themselves, abuse this process-check; but, oft-times, clients’ complaints are justified and help the rest of us remain very proud of our profession.

In any case, no clients should be abused nor made to feel captives of incompetent or uncaring practitioners. Maybe that was three-cents. Invoice follows.
Don Kelly patentagentplus.com

Hi Michelle, I didn’t mean to cut it short but I had to drive my wife to work in this blizzard we are having out here by Lake Tahoe! For my first go around with filing a patent I hired a patent agent instead of an attorney an it saved me 30-40% compared to an attorneys rate and he did a great job but that was before I was introduced to Michael Neustel through Inventright.com. Michael is one of the rare attorneys that speaks the lingo in our language (inventors) and he even has do-it-yourself software that is incredibly easy to use. Here is the website if you want to check it out. www.neustel.com

Hello Michelle, WOW! What a nightmare. I’m in the same boat as far as stumbling across this website. I have been studying with the Inventright group and they have weekly webinars that are live and interactive. Your timing is spot-on as I just participated in a webinar last night and it was with Michael Neustel, a patent attorney in Fargo, ND. He discussed NDAs (confidentiality agreements) for over an hour and answered questions until we all had answers. No Charge for his services either. And then to top it off, he gave every participant free access and downloads of his “confidentiality wizard” software. Unbelievable for an attorney to hand out freebees. Got to go. It’s a blizzard!

Well, Thank you, Imajane – who would ever know!

I am sorry about this frustrating experience. I really feel for you. I would be horrible frustrated also. I am glad things are turning around – I really hope that you are able to move forward and get a strong patent approved soon.

Hi Jane
You are right about the dashes
thx for the tip. feel much better about the patent situation
Have a great holiday
michelle

I think when you double dash to separate a thought, it crosses through it, not sure why…
at least it happened that way once to me
I’ll try again -just to see what happens-

the double dashes have to go right next to the words to cross them out…

I’m really glad to hear that he’s going to do the job he promised to do!

goofing around now… hang on… single dash

It only takes one dash! lol!
Good luck, Michelle. I hope this really works out well for you!

Thanks for your response really appreciate you taking the time to advise me-I actually received a call from the patent agent today and he was very apologetic -he was able to answer most of the concerns I raised to my satisfaction and in addition to agreeing to another video conference he gave me a completion date I can live with -I have decided to go ahead and let him finish the project-as long as he does the work as promised from here on out. Much easier than starting the process all over with someone new and also gives him a final opportunity to deliver. Hopefully I will not have to pursue a refund
I really admire you for being able to write your own patents – Wish I could
I may be interested in submitting some ideas on this website and have read all the info I could find and am aware of the insider program but am still confused as to what the submission fees are and how all that works. Where can I get this info?
Thx again for your response-once I have the proper protection in place I will post a video demo of my product this is my first invention and though I have lots to learn about actually getting a product to market I am so excited about experiencing the process- I am not exactly certain how it will all shake out in the end but I absolutely know this will be a commercial success. At every step so far the right doors have seemed to open up as I need them-
Have a great holiday
Michelle
PS -have no idea why the lines are through my original post -it is my first post and I was wondering the same thing

Wow! I really feel for you. Sounds like you are involved in a classic case of “breach of contract”. As hard as it may be to accept, my opinion is to cut your losses and concentrate on bringing the opportunity to fruition while you can. Accept the fact that this guy probably is not a good/ethical businessman. His intentions were probably good in the begininng and perhaps fell on hard times.. either way, it’s no excuse for such horrible customer service.

Unfortunately, I do not think your asking for a refund will really matter in the end. He likely will not refund any of your money and it’s probably not worth the effort to sue for $2500 when it’s all said and done (although small claims court may be worth it).

Perhaps Roger Brown or someone else has a recommendation for a good patent agent or attorney. Wish I had a referral, but I do all of my own patent applications.

Good Luck!!

Why are there so many lines through so many statements?