Hey Ivailo (and others),

I have to add a few notes here…

“The Provisional Patent Application actually costs EXACTLY $125 and was designed by Congress to give individual inventors a chance at bringing their inventive ideas to market easily”

This is actually a very false statement! The provisional patent application was designed to give US corporations (and to a lesser extent inventors) the ability to be on more even footing with foreign applicants who could file an application in their native country and then subsequently file in the US while claiming the benefit of their earlier filing date. It was not meant as a means to help independent inventors and some would argue that the provisional application is a detriment to individual inventors because it often provides a false sense of security to them. It must be noted that many inventor-filed provisional applications are useless and worthless from a legal standpoint in the sense that they would not hold up in court in the event that they were needed to establish an earlier filing date. The disclosure of your invention appearing in a PPA must meet the same exact requirements of a disclosure (mostly, the “description” section) appearing in a non-provisional application in order for one to derive legal benefit. Today, I believe that the PTO does or is beginning to view provisional apps as an asset to the individual inventor, but they are still quite a bit misunderstood.

That’s not to say they are a waste. A good faith effort can’t hurt and you will be able to call your invention “patent pending.” As suggested above, don’t falsely claim that your invention is patent pending; aside from other possibilities this can permanently bar you or a licensee from obtaining any patent protection on your invention, and it will probably void any licensing agreement you do end up signing (in the event you sign one).

Also, before making any significant investments, conduct a good patent search. Note: this does not mean relying on Google Patents, nor does it mean you should be putting much of any stock in results you get by inputting various two-three word keyword searches on Google Patents or elsewhere. There are various threads around EN on the subject, and you can search for them…

And lastly,

“Remember… Patents are MOSTLY “Improvements” on other inventions.. So, while you may see something SIMILAR to your inventive idea it does not mean that you cannot patent your IMPROVEMENT”

This is very true but there is one major caveat – “While you may be able to patent your improvement, that does not mean that you should patent your improvement.” You can patent almost any invention with properly drafted claims, and/or by making a very minor improvement to it. The big question revolves around determining exactly what a resulting patent would and would not protect against; one patent can offer extremely broad protection while another patent can, for all practical purposes, not really offer any protection. And then there’s the notion that just because you can patent your invention – it doesn’t mean you can market your invention without infringing someone else’s patent…

@ davekorpi. Hey Dave the information is really very supportive and helpful. There are lots of useful links. It seems that you really know well the topic of patenting and PPA. I was searching a lot in Google patents just for the sake of informing myself on what things got patented and yes I agree totally that most “inventions” are just a tweak, little improvements over previous concepts. However it is probably still worth to patent an improvement if it will be beneficial to a huge market and lots of consumers are going to buy the new one.

My invention is also kind of improvement, however I still try to evaluate the marketability of it. It is my first time i get some experience in licensing, patenting and stuff but I know the main factor is the people. If people like it and it could be produced cost efficient then it is worth patenting it. On the other hand if it doesn’t provides the necessary value to the people – patenting would be a waste of finance and time.

Up until now I know patenting can’t guarantee the success of your product, so that is why I would delay this step until i get very clear if it there is a huge market potential and interest from other companies.

Anyway the information is really very valuable and sure will make a good use of the sources in the future.

Thanks a lot for putting your time into writing this long replay.

PS: You say you want me to vote for your answer but as a newbie here I am a little embarrassed to say that I don’t kind of know how 0.o. Or better say where. Just tell me where is the button/link and I will do it right away

Ivailo:

Sounds like you might benefit from a bunch of information I will provide below.. I will describe more fully the Provisional Patent Application process and how to search and how you might market your inventive idea! SInce I am not an insider I had to take out the links.. Sorry!

The Provisional Patent Application actually costs EXACTLY $125 and was designed by Congress to give individual inventors a chance at bringing their inventive ideas to market easily. It is SUPER EASY to do..

To see the top 10 reasons to file a Provisional Patent Application please watch the second video in this blog.
filepatentapplications.com/blog/

If a provisional patent application looks like the right thing for you to do then take a look at another website that shows EXACTLY how to file one using a video format.
provisionalpatentvideo.com/

If you need to know how to get your product sold then you might also enjoy reading this information by the Ginsu Knife guy! It is pretty cool.
bit.ly/GinsuKnifeGuy

Of course you coulees ALSO just go to the US Patent Office and figure out how to file a patent yourself. Here is the link..
uspto.gov/patents/process/index.jsp
The flow chart there is pretty nice to give you an idea how to do what you want to do!

Their patent search is hard to use and you need special programs to look at the patents… Instead, consider using Google Patent Search!

Here is how you can use Google Patent Search to search for an “Oscillating inertial microbalance”
google.com/search?tbm=pts&tbo=1&hl=en&q=windshield+washing&btnG=Search+Patents#pq=windshield+washing&hl=en&cp=12&gs_id=4y&xhr=t&q=Oscillating+inertial+microbalance&tok=qmU6Mb2tmAgPCn06skSHuw&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&tbo=1&tbm=pts&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=Oscillating+inertial+microbalance&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=35652c72313c0fbf&biw=1390&bih=692

Just type the term you want to search for in the search box. Play with MANY variants of your inventive idea.

Also, for a more global patent search look here:
worldwide.espacenet.com/advancedSearch?locale=en_EP

Remember… Patents are MOSTLY “Improvements” on other inventions.. So, while you may see something SIMILAR to your inventive idea it does not mean that you cannot patent your IMPROVEMENT.. Example… A tire is an IMPROVEMENT on a wagon wheel. A radial biased ply tire is an IMPROVEMENT on a non radial biased tire. There are over 10,000 patents on tires… Nearly every single one is an improvement!

And… a special gift for you is a sample Non Disclosure (also called an NDA) that you would have folks sign when you show them your inventive idea. You can change it up and use others but if you have NOTHING now it is a very good start written by my lawyer who charged me a TON for it!
4lowprice.info/images/NDA_GeneralMutual.doc

If you like my answer can you vote on it?

Thanks,

Dave

My industry is metal fabrication, i deal with some plastics also. I’ve had several postential licensees wanting to strike a deal but it’s always fallen through for various reasons. I bring my products to market now and yes, I finance them all. A licensee can and will call all the shots that they have control over. When looking at what I have invested in current projects, I’ll maintain control and take the reward.

Before investing anything anywhere, make a firm resolution as to what you are willing to do and what you want in return. This is where your mentor comes in to ask you some tough questions and you define your path.

So you are venturing your inventions. Making and producing them on your own. As afar as I’m informed besides licensing your inventions to companies, venturing and running a business around your inventions is the way to bring your product to market.
It is interesting also but haven’t you started with licensing? Or you haven’t even dealt with it?

what is “your scope of expertise” , which industry do you invent for? In other words what is niche you have taken.

I’m not in the licensing business. First, I’m an inventor, then engineer, then entrepenuer, business owner, and currently in debt to my eyeballs. I’ve worked on tens of thousands of products for other customers. probably have a couple hundred individual inventions. Three products that sold or sell at retail. At least 6 more potential products for retail distribution in the works.

I invent as close to “in my scope of expertise” as possible so that I don’t need to learn new industries.

@ Scott Thieman . Thanks for your answer. I really didn’t expected people to be so concerned about newbies and their “random” questions. Of course having a mentor is the best way to go. Up until now I have had mentors however in different areas, but now the challenge seems a little bigger. I’m trying to do something on an national (across the USA) or maybe international scale. By the way I don’t even live in USA. (i’m from Europe).
I completely agree that ideas come day in and day out. I also give away ideas as much as I can. ( it somehow makes me come with even greater ideas).
I know also it is important to have a financial goal for the idea and I have one but, so as I get to think better when the goal gets completed the price for the PPA will be worth plus I’ll have the experience for the next project I take on. Somehow my intuition pushes me to go for it.

By the way for how long are you in the licensing business ? How many products you have worked on ? – Just informatively.

Really thanks for the advices.

Ivailo,

I would strongly suggest you get a mentor. Someone that knows business, a little about patents and possibly a lot about manufacturing. Someone that you can trust is the most important thing at this stage. Good ideas are a dime a dozen. Trust me, i give away good ideas all the time. Great ideas that can become a marketable product is another animal. I will not share a great idea (in my mind) with anyone other than trusted friends. These friends are people that have earned my trust over many years.

Once I have IP in place, then I’ll share great ideas. The idea has to be ready for manufacturing when I go for a patent. All the bugs worked out and costs have been thoroughly evaluated. If this is beyond your ambition, forget the patent and let EN take a look. I would not publicly disclose any idea at the other site.

@ John Krussaniotakis . Yes I can do that. i was looking at this Quirky website. I know it is EN competitor but don’t get upset if you are from the staff. it is just business. However does submitting it here and there gives me some protection. I don’t understand also if I submit it for $25 here or $10 at Q who is going to do the marketing part. Since from the books I have read (How to license your million dollar idea by Harvey Reese and One Simple Idea by Stephen Key) I learned that most of the work is actually selling the idea to a company.

I have little experience is business and selling and I know that having a good idea is only half the way. So impulsively in my mind pops the question. “Isn’t it too easy for $10/$25 to get your idea evaluated, manufactured and marketed.” It just seems too easy maybe unrealistic if i don’t even pick the phone and start calling and even get few rejections at the first time.

I know those concerns might seems ridiculous from the more experienced peoples point of view but this is where I am now. I have came with idea that i’m passionate about, read all that i could, made prototype but now I know i have to be objective about the marketing and selling part.

Also I was concerned if a potential licensee will necessitate I to have filed some protection (PPA) and if this will be a reason for them to reject the product.

Kinda long replay but I try to seek help from anywhere and of course I would like to help with something if I can.
Thanks a lot

You’re absolutely right Scott, and there’s two active/current EN’ers right now that didn’t want
to risk filing on their own, so they employed the services of expert patent attorneys…. unfortunately,
those attorneys have milked the inventors of every dime they had through numerous Office Actions/Extentions
that dealt with issues that SHOULD have been resolved at the First Office Action (but why would they want to do that?)….
now, both have depleated their savings and are facing abandonement of their Applications!

One attorney made the Application Non-Published, and refuses to even let his client have access to the PTO’s Public
PAIR so they can see their OWN application and the associated transactions that THEY are paying for!!??
Now what’s up with that?

…just saw your post, Ralph….
I had my PPA filed in my stead, but completed and filed the NPA myself, getting it Allowed after the First Office Action
and Issued in September. And yes, one application of my concept is already licensed and being sold. (did that myself too)
I agree, the process is not for the faint of heart, but it MOST DEFINITELY can be done if one sets their mind to it; with
the amount of information and resources available on the internet these days, both written and especially from
Professionals (active & retired) whose whole reason for existing doesn’t revolve around MONEY…. they actually CARE
about HELPING Pro-Se Applicants!

I realize that’s slamming the door on Patent Attorneys, and I concede that a complex “improvement” over an existing
product NEEDS to be handled by a professional, but I advise EVERYONE to study and learn ALL they possibly can about
the laws, procedures, terminologies, and without debate DEMAND to be kept fully abreast of the status of your Application!
If you don’t understand something, ASK until you do… and for heavens sake, if they say; “You don’t worry about a thing, TRUST
me!”…. run Forest, RUN!!!

Scott- I believe EN’s Frank White and maybe some others here (including myself) have already done this. As I also mentioned you are in NO danger if your invention has not been publicly disclosed or offered for sale. Filing a PPA is very easy (without claims) and that’s actually how you want to do it most of the time anyways. Instead of writing poor claims or claims that limit you too much, omit them from your PPA and then you (or your attny) work on those while your product is patent pending.

As far as DIY patents, it’s not something for the meek, or the un-informed. My first PPA’s were drafted by myself and then presented to my attny. He drafted his application before he ever saw my PPA. I would ask why he failed to claim such and such and presented my PPA.Then we would comprimise- He simply didn’t think of it that way. So I end up with a hybrid of the 2, with professionally written claims and as broad as coverage as possible. Don’t forget a patent isn’t just about what is claimed, as what is taught. While your claims are only good in litigation, what you have disclosed or taught is then used as ‘prior art’ making it tougher for copycats and knockoffs.

-I believe Frank White can chime in on this as he has also been down that road already…

I keep seeing people saying “spend $125 or whatever amount” for your PPA. Has anyone that is recommending doing this actually done it? I mean to file a personnally drafted PPA and then sought and been awarded a utility patent afterwords. Did they draft the NPPA themselves or turn that over to an attorney, or just abandon the whole thing without going for the NPP. Has anyone ever licensed out a patent that they drafted themselves?

Seriously, lawyer speak is not English. To begin writing a legal document on an idea that has any great amount of value is not something I would suggest anyone do without havng experience. It’s just not a very wise idea.

I can only imagine having a poorly drafted patent and then answering one of the very first questions a licensee may ask… “who drafted the patent?” If I were to say “I, the inventor drafted it” they would definately want to look at your idea, if it’s of any interest to them. A good attorney could probably find numerous ways to invalidate it or work around it.

One year is a very short time period to find and strike a licensing agreement, almost impossible. So playing around with PPA’s is dangerous if you do not have the resources in place to go for a NPPA

I am with KJ, it’s worth your $500 if its a winning product..why not try it on EN first though, see how far it gets…protecting yourself is key!

Talk about timing… Page 26 of the December Inventors Digest magazine has an article on that topic. It used to be an old law that making false patent statements was $500 per incident. This was supposed to keep knockoff companies (and others) from trying to use it as leverage in the market place. The law was updated with the America Invents Act, but now, the terms are a bit different.

As far as PPA goes, you can either have a full blown application written up and file your regular patent based on it a year later, giving you an earlier filing date, or just file a PPA with no claims and see where things lead. As long as your invention is not disclosed (as in fully) you can always file another PPA a year later, but you cannot rely on your first filing date. Check with your patent attny (if you have one) but I’m pretty sure those are valid options.

I would not publicize my intent to file for patent or even a PPA, just do it! In the big game of cards to play, you never let the other players know what cards you are holding (or not holding in this case). A PPA is only $125.00 which isn’t pennies but it gives you alot of advantages.

Best of luck on your endeavors!

You can submit an idea here for as little as $25… Give it a try, you never know..

Good advice Jim Hacsi. I never thought of writing that I just ‘intend’ to file PPA.
I know PPA is cheap and efficient tool. I have read a lot about its advantages. However I’m most concerned with the market potential of my invention. This is the first invention i’m going to try to license and I honesty I don’t like all that patents and legal protection work.
I have other ideas in my mind that I haven’t worked on yet, so I decided to do this one for a learning purpose. Of course if it turns out to have potential I will have to protect it.

Thanks for the quick responses. The information is really helpful.

Why not just claim that you ‘intend’ to file a PPA? That way, you won’t violate any laws (morally or otherwise) and in that case, who would ever know if you did or didn’t? The gamble you’re taking, however, is that there may be some shrewd scavenger out there with a lot of money and who is ruthless enough to call your bluff! Look, if you think your invention is good enough (we all usually do!), then why not spend $125 for a PPA. By actually filing a PPA, you retain the filing date if you file a non-provisional application within a year. And then you can submit the non-provisional app in the Missing Parts Pilot Program which means you will get two years to do something with your invention before putting a lot of money trying to protect it. The best thing about a PPA is that you can claim ‘patent pending’ status and nobody will know for certain whether you only filed a PPA or if you have an unpublished non-provisional application. One of the hardest things about inventing, is knowing when to be cheap and when not to!

KJ beat me to it….. what he said!

I would not recommend knowingly claiming patent pending if not true…

False use of these phrases or their equivalent is prohibited". ⁵ The use of the term “patent pending” or “patent applied for” is permitted so long as a patent application has actually been filed. If these terms are used when no patent application has been filed it is deemed as a deceptive act and a fine of up to $500 may be imposed for every such offense.⁶ Under the current interpretation of “offense”, each mis-marked article constitutes an offense, which permits theoretical damages in the hundreds of millions of dollars for high-volume consumer goods.⁷

You say PPA, that’s Provisional Patent Application which is the low-cost (like $150) application you can make prior to making the more expensive Non-Provisional Patent Application. Here are a few references that may help:
http://www.uspto.gov/faq/patents.jsp#a1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_pending#Uni...
http://www.uspto.gov/patents/resources/types/pr...