I cant see any way that not cleaning solar panels is a possibility.I think you’re identifying a really important not so future need there,Brett.

Hey Brett,
How about using the morning dew and a moisture sensor( like the ones that close skylights)and a simple squeegie system that runs down. Sounds easier to control and less chance of ice damage in northern climates.

only problem is places like here in northern ny we get lots and lots of snow. you would have to have a heater to melt the ice and snow so the device could move, that is assuming there is even enough sun to produce electricity. i like the squeegie idea better though.

There is a biomimicry endeavor to replicate the surface of certain leaves, they (or at least some species) are self cleaning via hydrophobic action, rain rinses away any dirt…

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/09/sto_lotusan_bio.php

Or employ a human.

That’s interesting,Mat.I ’d never thought about how leaves stayed clean to optimise phototsynthesis.
Windows get dirty,glass surfaces,man-made surfaces?,do leaves?

The squeegee idea is pretty good, as is the hydrophobic action. I live in Los Angeles, though, where there’s lots of pollution and months without rain. On the windshield of my car that’s parked outside, the wipers don’t do much good if the glass is dirty! That’s why I was thinking of the brushing action.

How about a hybrid proposition… Matt has a great idea and I believe there are already products on the market that help keep dirt from sticking to skyscraper glass. You could work that out w/ a squeegee as back up. Also depending on how many panels you have on the roof you could also use a soaker hose, a 55gal drum and a small sump pump. You could use a timer to turn it on (or off if you let the solar power it) A mild eco friendly rinse would help. Overall though, I think the daily cleaning factor, like the squeegee in the shower trick, will eliminate the build up that requires scrubbing.

Nice idea, David! I wonder how the daily squeegee would work on dried bird droppings? (Kinda gross, but there’s no way around them!)

I recommend installing a bird perch one foot awar from the panel, preferably runnin vertically upthe roof. That way all the droppings will fall in a narrow band. :)

That’s brilliant, David! So simple!

Thanks! Have fun with it! Sorry about all the typos. Too Late!

Another option — I know they have bug zappers, but what about a larger version…?

(That was a TERRIBLE joke. Forget that I put it here!)

I’m going to find another picture of myself smiling and post it.

Ohhhh no David…I like the “just killed my parents look”

Kust kidding….

Hi Mark,
How are you? Actually it’s my passport photo. While I have you- what happened to my ArcMaster radius tools submission for the casting call? I was a finalist that didn’t make the final cut w/ retailers. I would think it would show up somewhere on my dashboard w/ an opportunity to opt out or keep on file… Thanks for your help!

PS. I am working on some alternative energy products for you guys…

Hey David, are your alternative-energy products for “you guys” here on the forum, or “you guys” over at Mark’s company? I’m eager to see your ideas!

David may think I work for EN Brett.

Actually, I did think you worked w/ EN Mark. Maybe you should?!

When I went to the Providence casting call I got to speak directly w/ a big box store purchasing agent about a tool I had presented. Since my current version was a pro grade niche market tool, they were a little squeemish about taking me on.

Anyway, I asked what would be a product “home run” for them. They said anything in alternative energy would be huge. Since I have had some stuff cooking in my head for several years, I started building prototypes and collecting data.
If you guys are into solar or other AE products, it would be a great thing to develop for them. It would also kick EN up a few notches. Here is the biggest clue I can give- I have come across a company recently that makes a hot water solar panel. They sum up the situation in their home page as follows, “The industry as a whole has failed to go mainstream, so we wanted to make our products easier to get and easy enough for your plumber to install.” The idea was to get past the need for certified installers. I believe the box stores would love an even simpler system w/ modular and expandable components for the home handyman. Think outside the box, Think “simple”. Question everything currently out there. We have to cut costs and eliminate the brain surgery. If you want to corroborate or can help w/ investors, I am open.

Ha Ha….No thanks David….I don’t know that EN and I would get along very well.

I have a buddy in Florida that uses one on the roof of his house to heat his pool water…..is that what you are talking about?

Pool water is part of it, but I am thinking more mainstream, like hot water heater replacement and radiant space heating. Also working w/ solar photovoltaic and windpower, etc. Basically anything but grid electric, oil or gas eg.“going green” for the avg.guy.

I’ve had an idea gnawing at me for alternative energy in places that get a lot less sun so solar isn’t a great option. Thanks for the tip about “mainstream” (which I read as “low-tech”) so plumbers or even home owners can install it themselves simply and, I’d guess, cheaply.

Hi Brett,
You can use technology, it just needs to be readilly available/replaceable and easy to utilize. Non solar alternatives are great. Good luck! If you want to brainstorm, I’ll do anything I can to help. No strings attached. (I have my own stuff to bring to market.)If you want to get ou of public scrutiny, let me know and we can exchange e-mails…

Thank you David! My main question is how to get inconsistent power (say from a solar panel) into the home’s wall sockets! I know that storage batteries may be involved, and then the power has to be converted into AC at the proper voltage. And there’s the more blunt issue of how the power from an alternate source overrides the power coming through the lines from the power company … and how a house’s alt-energy can flow back into the grid (and make their meter run backwards)!

brett, a power inverter is used to convert the battery into alternating current. with AC current flows both ways, so it is simply depending on the demand, if your house demands more than the solar alone provides, then ac flows into your house, if your house uses less than the solar provides, it flows back to the grid causing the meter to run back. i still havent grasped the entire power conversion systems yet as there are safeguards that have to be in place to protect you as well as linemen working on the system, but most of it is easily controlled. my goal is hopefully in ten years to be as much off the grid as i can, though where i am may be difficult as i am in a small village and codes may not allow certain things, but i am of the mind that i will put it up anyway either a vertical axis wind turbine or solar regardless of the codes. i can always sue in court if they say i cant have them up as then they are forcing me to pay for services i can get for free and it is not right for government to regulate that in such a way as i cant do it, but most communities are getting more lenient now so probably wont be a problem.

Hi Brett, I saw a story in my local paper about a businessman who started a company that installs units that cleans solar panels. It sounded simple. It looked like he attached water lines set to a timer that showers the panels with a cleaning solution every few days. The H.P campus here in Santa Rosa, ca has 5 acres of panels that power up their plant. They just signed up for his service. There is a market for this. Go get em.

HaHa!
I’m too late again! Well we can ride the wave right behind him…

up here we need automatic salt spreaders and automatic driveway shovelers..lol

I used to live off the grid….had two big racks of solar panels and a generator backup. Also used rainwater collection with various filtration systems and used pumps with gravity to assist pressurization.
The inverters have gotten so much smarter in the past 10 yrs it’s amazing. www.realgoods.com has tons of information if you’re looking to see what’s out there on the market as well as learn.
Personally I think the greater opportunities tilt toward the energy conservation side of things. If you go off-grid, you get a gun to your head to be as efficient and conservative with energy as possible. The ROI is dramatically higher for the average homeowner to invest in conservation rather than alt production.

Feeding xs power into the grid and taking it out when you need it is such a smart system,Shawn.

I’ve tried to check this out[can remember the result,but I heard that the grid is very inefficient at distibuting power.

The figure that was doing the rounds last year was something like for every ten you put in,you get two out.

There was a lot of talk about micro-generation,and government incentives over here[UK]

capstone microturbines would be a good idea if biodiesel becomes readily available, and if a unit small enough for residential use were available, even one which uses flex fuels so you would have a choice depending on what is available. i believe the smallest they have now is over 50 kilowatt and very expensive. probably noisy too, though that could be addressed in several ways. these provide electric and heat at same time.

shawn

the power inverters recognize a carrier signal thats transmitted at the peak of the AC sign wave, If the inverter does not see that signal it automatically shuts itself down ,this is done to protect line men from getting a backfeed from any end line users supplemental power system such as ,solar,wind,etc.. Ive just finished a course given by Sharp maker of solar systems for the home . To sum it all up ..A home Solar system costs too much to make the savings wortwhile ,If any one has any questions in regard to Solar power let me know,,,One thing thats interesting is that solar power is at its least efficient during the longest days of summer ,due to the increased heat resistance during the summer months

Good info Shawn!
I think our best help w/ solar in a residential situation is through passive solar orientations and designs for storing the solar gain energy in our homes and solar hot water heating for both domestic hot water and radiant heat loops (which only require 90 degree water temperatures). I am currently working on some new simple systems which will be both inexpensive and can be easily upgraded and installed by a handy man.

OK Look what i found here ;)

“Solar panels’ efficiency is constantly improving, thanks to immense technology development efforts that achieve improvement increments of a few percent. Regrettably, mediocre dirt and dust hamper sunlight transmission to the solar cells, and consequently reduce their throughput substantially. Cleaning the panels is a costly operation and therefore cannot be a practical solution. TitanShield SolarCoat is an optimal solution to the problem! This innovative photocatalyst material is sprayed on the surface of the solar panel and will avoid accumulation of dirt. Not only that, due to its special optical characteristics, TitanShield SolarCoat will diminish the loss of solar radiation through the glass of the panel by 5% (by reducing glare and thus reflection from the panel, as well as other losses). TitanShield SolarCoat is inherently a UV radiation mask. This helps to prolong the useful life of the DSSC cells that are susceptible to UV radiation. Once coated, the TitanShield SolarCoat will last and function for the entire lifetime of the solar panel. We offer here a holistic environmentally friendly solution that eliminates the use of water and detergents for cleaning the panels, while saving considerable expenses. "

http://www.titanshield.co.il/en/p_sollar_1.php

NOC on Solar, from Clarke Clean, http://www.clarkeclean.com, or http://tinyurl.com/2czd7je, out of San Jose CA has developed an ultra thin nanotechnology that creates an anti-static, hydrophobic surface on solar panels for a self-cleaning effect. For pennies per square foot, this liquid technology can be applied to panels, once every 3-5 years (depending on your specific environment). Because it is anti-static, it allows dust, pollen, dirt to rest on the highest surface of the solar panel glass so that when Mother Nature steps in with rain, snow, wind, the debris is easily removed. As a homeowner or Business owner of panels, best practice is to have a monitoring system on your array. This will tell you when your panels need to be cleaned. If they are treates with NOC on Solar, cleanings will be fewer and far between and when you do need to clean, cleaning will be faster.

Europe long ago embraced the fact that you have to clean solar panels. In the US we have been sold the “Emperor’s New Clothes (Hans Christian Andersen)”. We’ve been told that solar panels don’t need maintenance, when in fact they do. Would you park your $90,000 Porsche outside and expect it to remain clean? Of course not! The windshield would need to be washed so that you could see thru it. Solar Panel glass works the same way. It needs to be cleaned because it gets dirty and light transmittance is reduced just as visibility is reduced on a windshield. If light transmittance is reduced your panels aren’t working.

The difference with NOC on Solar is that we are the thinnest hydrophobic technology on the market. A hydrophobic surface can be created with other products (wax, oils, polymers) but because of their chemical make up, they actually impede light transmittance. If you rubbed a layer of oil on your windshield you would have a hydrophobic windshield, one that is not long lasting, and one that does not provide high visibility. Treating your solar panel with a wax or oil has the same negative effect on light transmittance.

In a nutshell, you want to treat your panels with the thinnest solution, to create a high transmittance, hydrophobic solar panel. NOC on Solar is the only one on the market that meets all these points.