Hi Jim,
This information is similar to the percentage of products that are patented. A very low percent of patents really make it big or go to market (5% I read some where). I think that most inventors will invent gadgets that have a short time on the market, while others are more practical and have a need to be forfilled in the marktet. There-for the brand name grows and that is where the big money comes in.
I know people put money into the patent and then it dies out right there. A lot of work and money that goes down the drain.
It’s very hard to stay positive, but it is harder to know where to draw the line, when so many companies are out to get the inventors to invest more in producing a product that will probably never make it.
Most inventors are like parents, they believe that they have the best. So it is not just up to how much you believe in your product but how good and needed your product is.
Thanks for your information. It makes reality that much clearer.
Gladys

True Gladys!! One of the big reasons for inventor failure is lack of knowledge. Many inventors just see dollar signs but as I preach over and over this is a serious cut-throat business with high risks. I know that if more inventors took the time to get real knowledge they would clearly understand how the business works and what they can expect from it. For example, most people immediately look to file patents when in fact they should not. You do not need a patent to take a product to market. I never did…

Hi Jim,

An attorney friend of mine often repeats this little line of wisdom: “I tell people that the best protection is better, faster, cheaper”. If you can do these three things, you won’t need to worry about copycats. That makes good business sense to me and it is a rare attorney who will give advice like this over pressing for patent protection. Patent protection is not the be all and end all. It’s also very expensive for the little guy. My last encounter with the patent office left me with the impression that the system is not geared up to encourage innovation by independent inventors. I received an office action quoting a piece of prior art that I was well aware of but didn’t feel was close enough to be an issue. The examiner could barely speak comprehensible English and the attorney who did me a favor by getting on a conference call with him (after me having to do some arm twisting of the examiner to get him to even talk to the attorney) said that he didn’t even understand the patent rules. However, the examiner held his ground and said we would have to file a rebuttal or whatever it is called. Afterwards the attorney said that the examiners get bonus points for every action they send so they have an incentive to make it difficult. He said that we can file a rebuttal but the examiner will pick out some other random piece of prior art and send that to us. After some back and forth we can eventually end up being reviewed by a tribunal of some sort but that this whole process would cost me several thousand more. At that point I gave up. I have a few other patents filed but they are taking so long to examine them that I am somewhat relieved since I don’t want to go through the same experience again. This is a big reason why I like working with EN. They know the IP ropes and how to get through the process. Also, their focus appears to be on getting great ideas to market and not getting bogged down in IP stuff. This way I can focus on what I do best — Inventing :)

What a story James…

I can tell you I never applied for any patents and fared very well…I realized that patents for certain items are just not worth patenting especially if you plan on cycling through an item and moving onto others. Many inventors don’t realize that they don’t have to file a patent to bring a product to market but if you plan to license it is difficult to land a meaningful deal without one!

I haven’t gotten to the point of sealing a license deal yet, although an inventor partner and I did get very close a few years ago but after pouring my an insane amount of time and a fair amount of money into it I chose to walk from the deal because I wasn’t satisfied with the quality of what the company was going to foist on the public (they changed the material requirements to make it cheaper in the final prototype without consulting us). They were ready to sign and we could have gone with the deal and made some money but it didn’t seem ethical.

Anyhow that’s another story, but to pick up on your last point Jim, while I imagine that having an issued patent can in some instances be advantageous, I tend to follow the approach of filing a provisional and using the year to get a company to license it and help you protect it. Another insight that a fellow inventor once said to me is that when you are in the provisional stage (or I suppose at any point before a filed utility patent is made public), you are actually in a stronger position because reputable companies that you contact for a license deal aren’t going to want to take a risk of trying to get around your IP when they don’t know what your claims are (you don’t have to show them these to communicate the invention benefits). Once it is issued they can read the claims and put their engineers and lawyers to work getting around them.

Hi James,
I think the lawyers advice is right on the mark. The best protection is better faster and cheaper.

Jim, I think you are right for a couple of my products, I do not need a patent. I just need good business sence and go for the better, faster and cheaper approch. Being that I do not have high overhead cost like most big companies maybe this is the way for me to go. I can do this ( I think), what do you think?

Gladys

Hey!

Well, without knowing all about your products and your exact situation, it is hard to say but anyone can go to market without a patent so if you know you won’t be infringing on someone else you can certainly think about going for it!

LISTEN TO ME…because I know…you can bet on that. I’ve been studying this field very intensely for over 20 years.

This may be hard for inventors to swallow…but the rewards are in SALES SALES SALES….MARKETING….the guy with the big mouth and probably fake smile makes the most money….NOT the inventor. The inventor generally gets little if they don’t get ripped off.

Inventors Digest ran a cover before Edison Nation owned it that said on it: Invention + Marketing = Jackpot….meaning if you can do both.

Coming up with ideas is the easy part. YOU TRUST ME! I am the inventor, the marketer, the publicist, the guy handing out brochures of my inventions everywhere I can.

An inventor really must get involved in the business/marketing end to hit the big bucks and plus this gives you more “grasp” on your invention, less likely to get swiped! Maybe even be a sales rep for your invention besides royalties. Work for the company too! Maybe be the publicist….but if you think someone will take your idea, develop it and then hand you millions after doing all the hard work….you got another thing coming….unless you are in that elite 1% “mastermind” inventor club

Most manufacturers have their own ideas, they don’t need yours sometimes. They are manufacturers, they come up with ideas themselves and make them.

BILLIONS can be made if an inventor or guy with a good idea is willing to push their own invention or atleast take some responsibility. I will name a few. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, Thomas Edison, Ben and Jerry’s ice cream, Walt Disney.

If you even offer to show your product at occasional shows or fairs…even that will help you. Get some brochures made and mail them out to help you and your licensor/manufacturer. These little things help so much. My little bit of marketing gets me almost 10 times the profit that I would get from just licensing. I am now a partner with my manufacturer…all because I do a little marketing and pitch in.

ANYONE can make a million from their invention, and anyone can end up homeless from shear laziness too. What you put in is what you get out. If your invention fails after and all out effort…you have learned a GREAT lesson….and better your chances then for the next invention’s success.

You know Ron, I have to say that I am happy you wrote this…because I too worked my butt off to make my money….and you absolutely MUST take sales and marketing very seriously or else your great invention will go nowhere financially. I realize that many people do not have selling or marketing skills and that is ok…just hire the right people and it will surely be one the best investments you can make!!

Hi Ron,

Have you ever thought of starting a blog, kind of like Mark R. did? It would be a way for you to share your experiences in an organized fashion, rather than in the now & then way you do on the forums.

Hope you’re feeling better! (;^)

Linda…if I can beat this health crisis big things are coming to help people. Much bigger than a blog…I had offers before but was too sick. Thanks for the nice comments and concern!!!

JIM JIM JIM…i don’t want to hear that some do not have sales ability!!!! Sales ability is shear effort, work, and stamina to get back up after rejections over and over.

People don’t like sales and say they are not good at it because it is HARD WORK…harder than coming up with most ideas and the simple inventions we mostly see.

I’d like to say i’m not good at cleaning so I don’t have to do it…same thing about someone claiming they are not good at sales…LEARN….NO EXCUSES…it’s YOUR invention….sometimes ONLY YOU can sell it at first. No one else will put in the effort into YOUR dream.

You don’t have to be a sharp toungued salesman with a nice smile, bright white teeth and too much cheap perfume….be yourself! Be a reporter not a salesman if you wish. Just state the facts about your product and stay away from typical polished bull like a salesman.

Many on this forum have an EXCELLENT idea but will completely fail because they refuse to be a salesman for their invention and therefor will never reach the right door from lack of exposure. Even seeking a licensing deal takes great sales efforts.

I am raw, real, ABSOLUTELY truthful. I tell the REAL story of my products and I tell that around the world now. Because of just being real, I am the best salesman anyone can be…without ever using slick tactics…I was just “me”…and I just told the truth….and people bought it from here to Japan.

Hey Ron! Hope you are feeling good today and I am awaiting a call from you!

Now you know I have been successfully selling the world’s largest retailers for nearly 20 years so please understand that if was able to succeed I always feel that others can to. That being said, you do need skills and understanding of how to talk to buyers in order to sell them. I am not a doctor, lawyer, or accountant and when I need their professional help I seek them out. I dont just say “I can do it” and attempt to diagnose my own illnesses or defend myself in a legal matter should one arise when I have no real clue as to what to do. I reach out to those that have spent years learning and perfecting their craft. Inventing is a business and until inventors realize this we will have more and more of them losing money and often their life savings. You cannot just “will” yourself to do everything in the world but I always believe you must never give up with things if you want to achieve and practice practice practice!

It is great that you are so encouraging to inventors and you sure know I am, but lets face it – not everyone can sell and some people may spend years trying to become “salesy” and should understand when they need help and seek it out. Sales work is NOT just effort and work, it is a skill like many other skills. It must be learned and perfected….and “practicing” on retail buyers is not the way to go. You usually only get one shot at making a sales call to a buyer and so why would you do it incorrectly and blow a great opportunity. I admire your stance but I have been doing this my entire adult life and unless inventors spend the necessary time learning the ins and outs of proper selling and how retail buyers operate, they will waste precious opportunities and time – believe me. I see it all the time!!!

Yes Jim you are right. Not even you or I could be the perfect salesmen for everything or maybe even more than half. Salesmen specialize in many different ways.

Take my major invention. I rely on medical people to “sell” the product and some literally are to patients. Well I can’t do that ofcoarse.

What I am saying though is many inventors are too shy or for some other reason, not even able to demonstrate or explain their own invention!!! I have MANY years understanding and testing Handi-Straps. How could a salesman ever learn all that and be able to pitch it like me?

Yes Ron….you make great points! No one will have the passion quite like the inventor! All they have to do is learn how to sell properly, learn what retailers want from them, and how to articulate their product benefits in a way that allows others to benefit and not just themselves….

No Jim…your not fully getting me.

A guy like you can get double the payments or beneficial terms from a big retailer than I can for myself…they would beat me up. So I should not try to be better than you or do your job but what I am saying…the inventor has much sales work at all levels that needs to be done and should take some of those duties themselves.

Take me, I go to NYC and pitch to the news studios. I try to get on TV shows and in magazines, but I also put out little cards at local stores.

There is always some part of sales or promotion the inventor can do and for the big deals and sales….maybe get a pro so you don’t give away too much.

Just inventors need to get more involved in general…if they want big success.

I think it comes down to, do you want a small piece of the pie or a large piece of the pie….I think what Ron is trying to say is, if you want a large piece of the pie then you are going to have to get out there and do a lot of the work yourselves…cut out some of the middleman….If you want a small piece, then let this site do the work for you….you can’t have both, unless maybe you invent like “VIAGRA” ….or the hair loss pill that reeeeally works …..

Jim and Ron each bring great info from their perspective of the inventing business and each is telling the truth. Inventors have to make the decision which direction works best for them. Do they have the time, funding and contacts to make the product themselves and drive the product to market and build a business around it. The other Inventor is looking for a company that is established in a certain target market to take the idea, make the product, and understand they will get a smaller piece of the pie since they are doing less of the hard work.
As far as patents go if i was building a business around the product I would want all the protection I could get. My product the Super Sleever was patented through Westinghouse, whom I was working for at the time. They had their own patent group filing the paperwork,but had me answer all the office actions since i was more familar with the product than they were. It took 4 years two months to get the final patent approved. The experience was a great learning curve and helped me decide to go the licensing route on any further product ideas. I am a serial Inventor and realized with over 240 products in sell sheets I would not live to see all of my ideas have a chance at making it to market if iIwas looking at an average of two years per product to get the patent approved. This did not include the cost, and the full time job it would take to follow up on all the paperwork involved. This would also be on my dime since I would not be making any money will I was getting all of this off the ground.
I do research and look at the option of patenting ,but leave that up to the company licensing the product from me. I have found that having the patent before going to a company for licensing does not get me anything I get without the patent. The royalty percenatge does not change. I deal with major, medium and small companies pitching my product ideas via sell sheets. I have asked them all “will my royalty percentage be more if I already have it patented?” Out of countless companies I have dealt with over the years I have only found one that would offer me more if it was already patented. The going rate is between 3% and 8% for most companies. The deciding factor on raoyalties seems to be how much investment do they have to put into the product to get it to market. As Ron pointed out his device, although fantastic, has a liabilty issue that has to be addressed in the decision to go forward. My Pizza Scissors would not require that type of decision.
There are many factors that go into every product and the decision to move forward or drop it. Anything you can bring to the table to aid in that decision works in your favor. Ron has medical research backing him up that his product does what he says. If he did not have that and a company was looking at his product from just his pitch they would know that this has to be looked at hard form a medical perspective and they would look at do they want to spend that kind of money and time on a product that in the end they may see as to cost intensive to make it worth pursuing. On the up side they could also say they have the funding to do all this testing and know their competitors don’t, giving them an edge to produce I profitable products that others could not.
That is why I am always saying there is no one size fits all in this business. You have to decide what works best for you and your situation. Once you have made that decision, do it to the best of your ability and hopefully you will be rewarded for your efforts.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Roger….Thomas Edison and I have something very much in common. Nobody would buy his light bulbs at first because they feared the house burning down. Edison had to give them away.

Nathan’s hot dogs, the first hot dog, people feared as unhealthy who knows what is inside. So Nathan’s advertised free hot dogs to doctors who would come for lunch on the boardwalk at Nathan’s if they came wearing their white doctors coat. The doctors came and the rest is hot dog history.

With Handi-Straps, no big company probably would have even took a thought about the risk of my product in the beginning. It was all up to me.

Now, MANY here…and I would say half even have a GOOD commercial idea. Look…if a potato chip has some scratches on it and someone says it is the face of Jesus…there is some wacko out there that will buy it…maybe even 500,000 wackos. ANYTHING will sell….the question is how many.

Many here have an idea that will sell 500,000 pieces but that is NOT enough for a licensing deal or atleast not at incubator stages (too risky) If the inventor gets involved and pushes/sells/promotes until the idea is more proven or proven a little further they have a good chance but what happens is most good ideas never come about because the inventor does not want to do some of the grueling work to prove the invention.

When I started I already had great approval from many EMT’s , doctors, tradesmen…you name it. Plus I had a big list of potential customers like the State of Texas; the Governor’s office did military testing for me.

OK…what I am saying….I know inventors and they don’t “represent”…“promote”…help sell their invention enough and that is why they fail.

I turned down Home Depot on Handi-Straps 3 years ago. I talked to their very top buyer myself and they wanted the product but the terms were looking too lopsided their way. I would get beat up. (Another reason to submit your invention to EN) Right now, today, is where I can use a pro at sales like Jim DeBetta because he can negotiate the terms I am looking for. His reputation gives him leverage, but I know Jim could never beat me pitching the true function and purpose of my invention and that is why I must do some of the promotion too….or atleast show him how I do it at a lower lever….or pass on the info from my market research/promotion…..something…or Jim may very well fail pitching my invention too….and it would be my fault.

Hey guys….these will be my last thoughts on this subject which hopefully has been very informative for everyone before I post something new….

The takeaway for all inventors should be a combination of what we are all saying – you must lay out your goals(do you license or make and sell yourself) and then pursue them, be passionate about what you do, do as much as you can yourself and reach out for help when you are out of your league in certain areas, learn all you can about the entire process of licensing, patenting, manufacturing, marketing, selling, etc, and most of all understand that inventing is a business and like all other businesses you absolutely MUST learn about how businesses run, the risks involved, and surround yourself with the most knowledgeable and well-connected people you can – among other things.

I agree with the guys that no one is likely to ever be more passionate about your products then you will and you WILL make mistakes while on this journey of taking products to market. But no matter what, passion will only take you so far. You need skills, patience, and understanding of the process – period! Having the passion and skills combined can be a powerful weapon and lead to great success. Remember, buyers dont buy passion – they buy products they can make money with. I spent years learning this lesson when my enthusiasm was applauded by major retail buyers but I was sent home as I had little idea of what they needed, what their customers wanted, and how to do business with them. I learned the long and hard way but by reaching out to pros and reading and learning all I could I eventually sold all the major retailers including Wal Mart, Target, Costco, BB&B, Radio Shack, Michaels, Dicks, Babies R’ US, HSN, etc, etc. After more than 15 years and more than 50 million in products sales to these and other big chains, I can tell you that unless you want to treat inventing as a hobby, you must gain skills and learn the business….and add your passion and hard work and eventually if your product is truly beneficial to others you can succeed!!

That’s all folks!! I will post another topic soon….and and always I love the back and forth – its all good!!!

Hey Roger, Jim, Ron – thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge. What an education – I feel like I should send someone a tuition check!

I’d be happy to share my knowledge, too. Anyone want to know how to scoop cat poo? (;^)

See Linda…I did think of you when writing here. You have an army of cats and a litter box invention. Who could pitch and sell the idea better than you??? You are the expert, yet inventors pass off the initial promotions to someone else….and so….their invention never goes anywhere because their assistance in sales/promotion was necessary.

Hey guys!

Now Ron and Roger…you know how much I love you guys and respect what you have accomplished…but we all need to dispense some “tough love” to inventors here and now!!

One of the big reasons the invention industry has such a poor reputation and filled with scams and hyped promotions is because these companies promise inventors that they will succeed no matter what and prey on their emotions which only empties their pocketbooks and wallets and leaves them with nothing in return. You guys know I am a huge advocate for this industry and have been written about in articles in Entreprneur and Businessweekand even am a staff writer for Inventors Digest so you know I am dedicated to this industry and love it and practice in it daily. That being said, we all need to teach inventors that a COMBINATION OF PASSION AND SKILLS is the only way to have a shot at succeeding – period! With Linda above, and I don’t know Linda or her product and maybe she has been already successful so I speak in general terms for all inventors, but she is not likely to gain any significant sales to retailers or land a big licensing deal unless she understands how to sell and market. Believe me – I can pitch inventors products much better than most of them because I treat their products the way retailers want me to treat them – like a business transaction. I know what retailers want, their store layouts, their margin requirements, their customers, their process, their lingo, and how the product must be packaged and priced and many other details. If I see a great product, I get excited about it and have the passion but I clearly realize that passion alone does nothing for getting a product landed on a store shelf. You guys know this is true and inventors need to not be fooled into thinking that they are their own best sales and marketing team if they no little or nothing about it.

Linda may be the sweetest lady in the world but just because you have a product idea does not at all make you an expert in any of the processes of getting a product sold to anyone with all due respect. I am a businessman (disclaimer – I am a service provider for inventors) but when something breaks in my house I call someone if I know I have no clue what to do or after asking my neighbors for help or reading on-line who to fix. I am not saying not to try because inventors need to get their hands dirty and be very involved in their own success and learn by doing certain things. I realize that the time I spend trying to figure it out may cost me more in the long run when I screw it up. Same goes for inventors. If I had a dollar for every inventor that called me and told me they spent thousands on prototypes and even bringing in inventory that site in their basement and now they can’t sell it, I would be sitting on a yacht somewhere in the carribean all day long!! They see someone on the cover of Forbes and think those people just woke up with a sack of money in their arms. Most any successful businessperson will tell you that they worked their butts off, reached out to others, learned constantly and never put their emotions first as that usually leads to poor decision making. You must be a life long student! I am…and I already made plenty of money selling products. That is how I effectively provide extreme value to those I coach and consult with…and they expect that I do so!

The fact is that inventors MUST acknowledge what they do not know and either take it seriously to learn it or seek out help. Unless they do, we will continue to see the road of inventing littered with more failures and upset people who have lost their shirt….

Inventing is a business….inventing is a business….inventing is a business…..and unless you are a millionaire that chooses inventing as a hobby, the rest better get with it and learn more and spend their time and money wisely…

Jim…I’m not doubting your expertise is the best thing for everyone including me….all I’m saying is inventors need to do some sales and promotions themselves in the beginning levels.

Like this: If I had a kitchen product I would pitch a working prototype to a few restaurants and hotels. Maybe get a known chef’s opinion/endorsement. Make a focus group of people who like to cook at home. Maybe get a few quotes from manufacturers to get the lowest price so mass retail numbers work. Maybe do some graphic design for packaging. Do lots of research on my product from prototype stage to market shelf space availability and competition.

Maybe get a few local vendors or even find a vendor at a large flea market in your state and see if they will sell for you. DO SOMETHING!

Then Jim, I come to you with a portfolio of product history for you to comprehend and figure your plan and pitch to the big retailers. Again, you are best for that because if an inventor makes the deals with big retailers for the first time, chances are they will get a terrible deal and that deal may even be impossible to fulfill.

Not all inventors will be great at what I say to do….but trying to do atleast a little something like even research makes all the difference.

I do things this way and I have NO CHANCE of failing!!!!! Know why? If I am not foolish and go order too many thousands of pieces of an invention, I will always be able to sell some. Heck, even an empty box will sell if it is a nice color!

I may lose some time on a bad idea but the learning experience should be worth it.

Ron, you’re right. No one could pitch my product better than me And though I don’t know, as Jim says, “. . . what retailers want, their store layouts, their margin requirements, their customers, their process, their lingo,. . .”I COULD learn all that. If I wanted to.

But should I?

Frankly, the very idea of learning all that bores me to tears. I’m not lazy – I’d just prefer spending my precious life doing what interests me more. So, I guess I just don’t have the passion to make it in this business. But that doesn’t make me a failure in life.

Still, I can’t ignore the ideas that pop into my head. If EN doesn’t want them, I might try licensing them – I’ve learned a bit about that process here (thanks guys!). But, no, I won’t be out selling my product. Thought I could see me demonstrating it at a pet store. That would be fun. (;^)

Enough from me. You boys can battle wits here. It’s fun to watch. (8^)

Just a word of caution to all Inventors that love their invention and don’t look at this as a business. Just because you have a patent does not make it marketable. There are thousands of Inventors that have expensive patents and nothing to show for it but a nice plaque.

http://www.rogerbrown.net

Through many many many months of reading and research I have found very few products actually succeed……

When I found EN months ago…..I thought “WOW” how easy this is……I let my emotions get the best of me…..Got excited……..And thought for sure I was on my way to success……

Then I realized passion is great……But can also get the inventor into trouble……So I slowed it down…….Started researching my products to the best of my ability…….And learned so much along the way!!!

I realized the out of the 15 product ideas that I have, maybe two of them may have a shot at any type of success!! After taking advice from some of the real successful inventors here I realized that most of them were to expensive to bring to market…….Or that the product I thought I had invented was already being sold somewhere!!

It takes more than passion to get a product to market…….It takes a certain skill, and if you do not have the skill, funds, or contact, your product is likely to remain just a sketch in a book, or a nice looking plaque to hang on the wall……Just the few months I have in this I realize that unless your planets all line up accordingly "It is not a marketable product…..

Truly the hardest thing for someone to do is look at their idea, and say “It won’t work” I have spent all of this time on this idea only to find it will not work…..But you just dust yourself off……Go back to the drawing board…..And start over!!!

I realized on at least 12 of my ideas…….It was simply an idea, and not an invention…….It was tough at first…….Learning how to research……Checking to see if they already had a patent somewhere!! But all the research and hard work taught me something…….How to realize when a product is marketable?? Or not??

If a product cost you $8.95 to bring to market……….And can only sell for $9.00……..It’s a bust……Move on……I am not saying give up…….Just do your homework…..Make sure your product is a marketable product…….Even if it wins a contest….It may still never make it to a store shelf……

My best advice is maintain your emotions……..Have passion……..But everytime you get a no…….Just look at it as a learning curve……Find out why you got the no…….Either make it better……..Or realize that maybe it is not marketable……..But even a no is nothing personal……Just business…….So like I said……Dust off…..Move forward……..Most of all……Be Happy!!!!

Hi Jim,

You make an interesting point about making the millions in the initial post.

In my recent conversation with Roger, he pointed out about market share and such and I began to calculate how much I would make even if one were to win the Bed Bath and Beyond LPS.

and a realistic number I believe is probably way way way below the millions, ofcourse there is chance it could be millions, but I dont think you should bet on it.

I am beginning to belive this a numbers game, and eventually they all add up to a substantial dollar figure.

I do some songwriting, and similar to this, its a numbers game too. Well unless you have a super duper big massive hit.

What credibility is it to reach a G7 w/an X. Does that mean that the product does have validity? Should it give you encouragement to go forward with your product?