Good for you Julie! You are the customer and you are paying for a service and you are the Boss and don’t let your guy forget it!

Well, my guy and I are back on track; however, this time I am in control because of the knowledge I have gained, and sifted through, here. Thanks again. No more mister nice guy (meaning me).

I think my guys from RI will get here faster so let’s wait before you make the trip from NJ.

"Julie….forget all this….too complicated. What you may need is a shakedown. Me and Sir Edward have started a shakedown business for inventors but we don’t advertise because you are not supposed to promote inventor services here.

What did you expect? Look at Sir Edwards avatar…you knew he was in some kind of bruiser business….We could take care of this for you…no more aggravation."

       
"Yeah, got the cap at Dick’s Sporting Goods…Didn’t want to look too suspicious coming in here and all…Why, what of it?! Yeah, yeah, ok, Ron…Understood. Downtown Julie Brown’s web designer dude needs the industrial size can of WhipAss opened for ’em over there in Yuma, huh? So, whereabouts in Zoo Jersey is that anyway?

Still want me to leave a set of Handi-Straps behind, as your calling card or what? I’m not gonna do that thing with his testicles and the straps that you mentioned though."

Thanks, James. Hmmmmm, maybe the root of the problem is this guy asked me out 7 years ago and I turned him down because he is 10 years younger (and never shuts up) and since then he has married twice. Guess I made the right decision.

Ron, I have my own ‘team’: remember, I’m fron R.I. But, I will keep you and Sir Edward in mind in case my guys have gotten too old. (Ron, I love it when you are funny! You were being funny, weren’t you?)

Julie,
Regardless of who owns the copyright to the site design, I expect that you should have a license to use it on any site since it is the product that you paid for. Check with an attorney but I would think that it shouldn’t preclude you from copying the site and hosting it somewhere else and changing it to your heart’s desire. You can find good hosts for under $10 per month; just check references and reviews.

I haven’t seen your site but I would be wary of using scripts like the cursor trails since they will date your site and make it look gimmicky. That type of script came out around 1999/2000 and got old very fast.

Boy, your experience with these clowns sounds like the fiasco with Registerfly a few years ago. Only in that case, millions of domain holders were left in the lurch for countless months, many having their online businesses crushed because their domain names were stolen and sold off by one of the founders. All because of a lovers spat and power struggle between the two founders with charges flying between them of spending large sums of their ill-gotten gains on male escorts, etc. It was an unbelievable ordeal trying to get domains out of their clutches and ICANN would do nothing about it. Next time I hope you find someone reliable. I wouldn’t put much weight in them being local, since email and phone are all one needs to communicate on a web project. Best of luck!

Sir Edward, Thanks – After I see what the designer’s response is to me about going forward, I will get the fancy schmancy balls changed to the Dancing Stars Cursor. But the good news is that I was not charged for the fancy ball’s use. (would love to make a comment here but I might get kicked off)

The story gets even more complicated because the person who originally did the travelerstread site also started the sleepyhead.. site but couldn’t/wouldn’t finish it because, although I had given him the product brochure and told him I wanted those colors (blues…), he did the background in a dark maroon (which doesn’t seem very child-like to me), and I didn’t like the colors so he threw a fit. So, his business partner took over the job of finishing s.h. and then adding photos to t.t. The two of them control the hosting company. The two of them are always in some type of disagreement with each other so I know the problem isn’t JUST me. Living in Yuma doesn’t offer one a great variety of choices and I wanted to keep it local – not sure why at this moment.

Sir Edward is correct on the ownership, but to verify, the “work for hire” clause reverses this.

Your web designer has no financial gain by restricting you from your property, he’s just being a … Julie, call him whatever you like, “piece of sh..” works for me.

If he refuses to move and no other options work for you, write him a check for $20 bucks or something. In the “memo” of the check and/or an attached and notorized letter, put the “work for hire” in there. He will then have the choice, the money or continue to be a POS. Money usually works, and its a lot cheaper than a lawyer and the whole court thing. If he cashes the check, that “should” confirm his agreement to the “work for hire” if it comes to anything at a later time. Just save the cancelled check etc. Make sure that you get full access to your website “before” he cashes the check.

The little jerk doesn’t deserve anything, but it will be a very cheap lesson learned if he takes a twenty and you can move on.

Everyone else, USE THE “WORK MADE FOR HIRE” IN YOUR AGREEMENTS!!!

“…the fancy schmancy balls are what was either free or affordable: I really wanted little stars but they were too expensive – so I heard.”

Hmmm…? Well, not to bust your web developer’s fancy schmancy balls, but, hopefully he didn’t charge you anything for its use, especially when considering that he obtained the script for free himself. There is the ‘Dancing Stars Cursor’ that would probably be a more desirable replacement for your cross-browser trail script cursor…If you ask nicely, perhaps he’ll consider replacing it…Couldn’t hurt to try!

Dancing Stars Cursor…
This cursor script produces dancing stars that animate and swirl around your cursor. The script uses NO images, so the effect is extremely lightweight and easy to customize.
http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex13/star...  

The demo worked using Internet Explorer…Didn’t work while using Firefox or Opera, at least, not when I tried!

Thank you, all. Sir Edward, the fancy schmancy balls are what was either free or affordable: I really wanted little stars but they were too expensive – so I heard.

We’ll see what happens tomorrow. I’m not one to be held hostage or to put up with any (excuse me) crap and I know how to move on and away from a bad situation. (Two divorces are my proof.)

I am so appreciative of all the help and info. – thanks again….

Completely agree with James and Sir Ed.

BTW, here’s where your web developer got your fancy schmancy cross-browser trail script you use on the sleepyheadpillowcase.com site…

http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex13/trai...

“No. Handshake with a person who did 3 other sites – no contract.”

Wow, people actually still conduct business doing that these days?!

FYI
Copyright law states that the creator of the design and content on a web site automatically becomes the legal owner of said design or content the moment it’s designed or written. Nobody has to do anything special to make this happen, it just does. What this means is that your web designer owns the design they created for your web site. You do not. You own the text content and any images you provided to the website designer for inclusion on your site and that is only if you yourself wrote the content, took the photographs or drew the design. If you got the photos from say a stock photography web site, even if you purchased them, they are not yours. You purchased a license to use them.

It’s imperative that whatever content you provide to your designer for your web site must be legally owned by you … OR … if you did not create it yourself, you must provide proof that you purchased it and that you have permission to use it in the way it’s being used on your web site. Purchasing a license to use the materials does not give you free reign to use it in any way you want either. Read the licensing agreements before you buy. These agreements are usually very specific as to how the images can be used.

In most cases, what you actually have when your web site is completed, is a license to use it. Now, that’s not set in stone either. Some web designers will automatically turn ownership over to you when your site goes live, others will do so if you pay a purchase fee. There are a number of perfectly legal ways to handle this and it’s generally at the designer’s discretion as to which way they deal with it.

If you own the domain name, then you should log into the registrar and change the password in case your web designer has it. Then you should scrape all the content off the web site so that you have a local copy of it on your hard drive. If you have copied the old site, you won’t have the source graphic files in their original format (PSD, PNG, etc.) but you will have a copy of the web site so you won’t be up the creek. The next step is to set up your own hosting account with another host, or if you are paying the hosting provider directly the the current hosting account should be in your name. In that case you should to log in there and change the passwords. If you don’t have the login, you should contact the host and ask them to change it and email you the temporary password. Also inform them that you are no longer working with the same web designer and that he is not to be given access to your account under any circumstances. If you had to change hosts, once you have set up the new account, log into your domain name registrar and change the DNS settings to the new host. Then you have full control over everything and the old site is ignored by the name servers so even if the designer puts something malicious up, no one will see it. You can post the old content onto the new server and start redesigning it your way. If there are ecommerce pages set up, then the new host would need to support the same system or you will need to build new ones.

There is no reason that he should be emotionally attached to the designs he creates. He’s not a fine artist painting for his own pleasure. This is a client-designer relationship. You are paying him and he should be professional and design what you ask for even if he doesn’t like it.
Good luck!

Thanks, Mark. I will look forward to hearing about the legalities involved. Guessing works sometimes: when I was an estimator (construction), sometimes it was necessary to just do a ‘guesstimate’ and then held my breath.

You pay for hosting you are entitled to the username and password to access the server to work on your site! Would you rent a house and not get the keys?

He is obviously breaking some kind of law………..

Hey Julie that really stinks… While I agree that you should try legal means first if those don’t work I have a few ideas that might work to put some pressure on him. Nobody (especially website builders) like to have negative feedback online and I know just how to place the screws on him.

Wish that I still had access to those Gov computers to really mess with him ;) LOL

Julie,

I’ll ask Mark Smith to post and give you a real legal opinion – the rest of us are simply guessing.

Mark
http://inventoropinion.blogspot.com/

Margaret – thanks. I AM happy with his work (other than the photos and wrong names of some of the colors. He did sleepyheadpillowcase and just finished adding the Monster Go Away Spray – without TOO many testy moments. I have the account numbers and passwords for the domain names but not for the hosting.

Yuma is a very small town and word travels fast: if I go with another designer, he will probably stop hosting headwarmer and sleepyheadpillowcase – in addition to travelerstread.

Tomorrow is a ‘regular’ work day so maybe he will contact me with his decision. I just want to have some knowledge and my ducks in a row in case he won’t update the site.

I have learned a lot in this thread and I thank all who contributed – I hope others will share their knowledge or experiences so I will be even MORE ready – just in case….

Julie,

That’s good that you own the domain names. Do you have the account numbers and passwords for the domain accounts and for the hosting? I’m guessing that he has control over the hosting passwords. If you have them, you could go in to the host server and copy files to your pc. It doesn’t sound like you are too happy with his design (which he does own) but that you want to use the content and images (which rightfully you should own). If you can get on to the host server and get the files you need, you can start over elsewhere. But it sounds like he would probably give you some sort of a problem over it.

I am back in Yuma – darn! Thurs. was the day from hell – it would have been much more fun to be at the show – maybe even ‘crashing’ one of the cocktail parties. The trip back Fri. was uneventful and then I crashed.

I use GoDaddy for my domains and they really stay on top of things so none ever lapse.

Hi Julie .. that’s a good idea to cover all the bases. Are some of them 1 year and some 5 / I think I have one of each but I know they expire at certain points. I have left it in capable hands to make sure they get re-newed. I wouldn’t have even thought of someone trying to swipe a lapsed renewal and then sell it back. Takes all kinds I guess.

Are you back from SD yet?

Sir Edward, No. Handshake with a person who did 3 other sites – no contract. Scold me if you must. I did have a contract for the 1 site the guy did not do and she gave me everything. Touchy, touchy. I really hope that ‘my’ guy doesn’t use google alerts for his company name – I will REALLY be in trouble if he sees this thread.

Roger, I own all my domain names – about 20. When I get a name I like, I secure any variation of the name, if possible.

“Website complete but there is a problem with the designer: who owns the site?”

Just curious, in the contract you have regarding Walt’s Web World, does it state anywhere that all the code, etc. is “your” property and were created exclusively for you?

Examples…

All proprietary information furnished hereunder shall remain the property of JANE DOE, XXXXX COMPANY, owner of WEBSITE, and shall be returned to Her or destroyed promptly at its request together with all copies made thereof by the receiving party.

Any and all aspects of WEBSITE is the property of JANE DOE, CEO of XXXXX COMPANY, owner of WEBSITE and will be delivered to Her, by the recipient, who is DEVELOPER, part of DEVELOPER XXX. This property includes, but is not limited to, any and all HTML coding, and all other elements that comprise WEBSITE.

I learned from my nephew who hosts my site and secured my domain names for both Duzall.com and Duzall.ca that there are people (schisters?) who wait for users who fail/forget to re-register their domain names and they “capture them” and then basically hold them for ransom and can make it very expensive to get it back especially if you have established or branded your product to the site. Duzall.com was actually taken when he secured Duzall.ca and he explained that .com was abandoned and would be available after a certain date . he couldn’t make any promises I would get it but he was on top of it and when it became available he nabbed it . Apparently it is quite a business for people that do nothing but wait to steal domains.. so make sure you have your anniversary date recorded and remind you when the renewal is coming due.

Thank you Paul and Ron,

Paul, This guy did the first site in 2003 and then 3 sites after that one so it didn’t seem necessary to validate it with proper paperwork. I can assure you that this problem will not happen to me again – I WILL use the ’Consultant’s Work Agreement’.

Ron, I own the domain name so he can’t do anything with that: if I start over, I will still use the same name.

Thanks….

I had an oral agreement with witnesses with my friend that he world sell the domain back to me at any time for one dollar because of this issue.

He said though, and explained that there are laws against this because it happened to Coca-Cola and some other big names as they tried to steal the domains. You can’t do that because of trademark rights but also, you, as exercising the business under that named have assumed ownership if you go to court and fight it the right way.

You must be careful though that this person doesn’t say….“oh yeah”…and just drops the domain and now someone else a stranger has picked it up. I am not a web expert at all….but this is what I am told by someone who is…

Julie…you can talk to the guy that does my website and told me all this….but I bet any good website company can tell you…and what they will probably tell you is in any way….gonna cost you money.

Ron Komorowski
Inventor of Handi-Straps
www.handi-straps.com

Julie:

All these problems could have been completely avoided if you / your designer used the form
"Consultant’s Work Agreement’ from the book Patent It Yourself by Dave Pressman, printed by Nolo Press. On that form it spells out that you own what he / she creates, etc.

It’s an award-winning book. For good reason.

That form and the ‘Non-Disclosure Agreement’ form from the same book have save me dozens of headaches over the years.

Julie this should be easy to fix……Check your email.

It is yours!

According to whois the domain is legally Julie Browns.

I don’t understand……You paid a grand for the Hosting?

You paid for hosting then you are entitled to password and username he can not legally refuse this to you.

Redawg, for what it would cost me to hire an attorney, I might as well start over with a new designer. I’ve recently been the attorney-route, going after two companies using my trademarked name for the Sleepy Head – they also had pillowcases they were calling Sleepy Head. From everything I have read, I think the webdesigner holds the rights to the website even though I own the domain names.

Gerald, He hosts 4 sites for me and the designer of the other site hosts that one for me.

Julie, Did the web designer obtain the hosting services for you although you own the domain names?

Julie, I don’t know how you got involved in this situation, but it sounds like you need a Lawyer or go into Arbitration. If he hosts your website that does not give him any legal rights to your domain name if you purchased it. I have bought and sold many domain names over the years and never heard of a situation like this.

Thank you, Margaret. I own all the domain names. He is the host of 4 sites. One of 5 websites was not done by this guy and that designer gave me everything I need if I want to go to someone else. This guy told me he would never do that – under any circumstances. Something to do with someone else ‘ruining’ his work.

The first website was in Jan. 2003 so we have a 7 year history – not all of it smooth because of his sensitivity. Since I wrote the text, if I have to start over with someone I should be able to use my own words. I paid his wife to take the shopping cart photographs (although she wouldn’t let me be present and she didn’t use the color combinations I wanted): wonder if I can have those mismatched photos as I just can’t start over with that time-consuming process. (Complained about the incorrect color combinations but HE got sensitive – on her behalf, I guess. On top of that, I hate the shopping cart he used: I didn’t complain about it but I also didn’t PRAISE him for the shopping cart so you know that is a touchy subject. She is threatening divorce so that doesn’t help his mood right now.

Again, thanks.

I hate to say it Julie, but unless you can negotiate it out of him, or he has a change of heart, it doesn’t look too good. I had a friend that had a similar problem. The guy she hired wouldn’t upload her photos in a timely manner (she was a photographer), so she ended up firing him. He wouldn’t release the site. She basically had to start over. Hopefully the domain names and hosting are in your name. I built a few websites for other people in the past and always provided a contract stating that the person who hired me owned the site. I still kept copies of everything for my personal records, but I turned a copy of everything over to them too. It’s just bad practice to hold someone’s site hostage. Hopefully you can convince him of that. If he doesn’t come around, maybe you could pay him to part ways and give you all the passwords and files.

Well, There isn’t any way to answer this without offending at least one person; however, if I didn’t know better, I would swear that he is gay because he is the MOST sensitive man I have ever come across. Anytime I don’t like his suggestions, or if I like them but have an improvement to his suggestions, he has a hissie fit. Right now he is angry because I had an artist friend do the artwork for the Monster Go Away Spray I just added to www.SleepyHeadPillowcase.com. He thought the artwork should be of a paint can (can’t figure that one out) but I thought a Sleep Fairy was more apropos since I am selling a sleep product. It is rather like arguing with a drunk – why bother because they don’t hear and/or understand but I am tired of defending my position when I actually should not HAVE to defend why I want what I want. It is never over money – always over his feelings and now he is saying that I yelled at him but I didn’t yell – he is choosing to call my aggrevated tone a yell.

I hope someone knows of a way to get MY website out of his hands so I can get it improved.

That’s not good. Why won’t the designer make the changes?