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tesladog's Avatargold

Ok, one of my concepts has been sitting at G5 for a loooooong while, which isn't a bad thing - means it's still alive and kicking. Now - and this is just a wild flight of fancy - what would be really awesome, and would make EN even cooler, is if we could occasionally interact with the EN team and just kinda hear a little feedback as to what you guys are thinking about our idea (say, after stage 4 and up). Just cause it's fun to know. Formulaic "feedback" when our idea makes it to the next level is good, but definitely limited. I realize ya'll have your plates full pretty much 24/7, so it couldn't be too interactive; maybe a live video conference twice a month with handpicked insiders who clearly understand the nature of NDA's, confidentiality, etc. Invite only, perhaps at a higher price point; we consumers love our options lol. There would have to be some very carefully established parameters around such an endeavor to protect IP, but maybe there's a way.

Can + Opener = Worms. I know lol.

Thoughts?

Chip
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magurn's Avataren_staff_badge

Hi Patric!

Thank you for the feedback and we'll definitely take these suggestions under consideration.

We work as a team to ensure all ideas are actively being reviewed within our searches. Oftentimes, things slow as ideas move higher in the process. As an Insider, as there is movement, particularly once a product reaches Stage 7, there are ongoing updates provided to your Dashboard.

Thank you!

Michelle

Patric J
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tesladog's Avatargold

Oh, I know - thanks Michelle :) I just want egg in my beer, my cake and eat it too, with extra icing lol

Michelle Sartori
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chappy75's Avatargold

this is an age old "plight of the innovator" at EN. I will give Scott Dromms credit here. 

When many of us first joined all we had was our dashboard as an indicator for where our idea stood in the process. Even when our idea dropped out of a search completely there was little to no justifiable reason... We were simply left guessing as to why our baby was ugly. Then Scott came on the forums (pre Michelle) and he would explain reasons each stage might exclude an idea... We still had no feedback when the idea was 86ed, we would come to the forums and discuss why. That worked for a while but innovators still demanded answers for scrapped ideas. "Why did our coolers and grills that were so awesome not get selected for the NASCAR search?" Then we learned of the "Grill Graveyard" and that was an Ahah moment.

some of us got pretty demanding about feedback... I believe it was Scott that said "we don't give feedback because answers will never be enough; answers beget more questions."It was explained and the community came up with being able to pay more money for feedback and a whole host of other noteworthy solitions to lifting the shroud of the decision maker to reveal our conceptual weaknesses.

Some of us accepted that but others insisted on feedback. So EN started giving feedback when ideas were removed from consideration. That was an awesome day. 

Now when EN started giving feedback some said that submission prices were going to go up others said membership fees would reflect the extra step and added value... Just like Scott had said though, it wasn't enough for some and the complaints came to the forums about "canned answers". 

Funny thing is that the majority of the people who wanted the feedback so badly aren't even around anymore. 

I think it is a matter of patience. Don't get wrapped up in one idea. Occasionally, an idea can get jettisoned into limbo. Maybe once or twice in the 8+ years I have been here (could that be right?) an idea may get removed from consideration and not be updated. Never happened to me but I had a couple ideas jump to G5 pretty quickly and sit there until the day before presentation. The results were mixed; some went G7 while others met the rubber stamp of the Red X.

Believe me when I tell you, no amount of feedback will quench your thirst for more feedback. 

Just a little lesson learned from the Chronicles of Chappy.

Mary Gorman
Kim L
Derrick James
Michelle Sartori
Patric J
williamj .
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kabuj's Avataree_badge

I've never agreed with ANY post MORE Chappy... I'm just jealous I would not have been able to articulate it as well. VERY well said.!!!

Best to all.

James Chapman
Patric J
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tesladog's Avatargold

Thanks guys - I agree with all of it. My thought is that interaction cross-pollinates new ideas and opens roads we wouldn't normally travel. Collaboration breeds better ideas, improves existing ones, etc. I enjoy and welcome the opportunity to be active in the process. That being said, I also understand the EN team NOT wanting the inventors breathing down their collective necks :P Believe me, I see all sides of the equation. Doesn't stop me from wanting to improve the process if possible; without innovation everything stagnates, and nobody wants that :)

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rpontius's Avatarg8_badge

Hey Sarah - in terms of resubmitting - I have found it to be VERY beneficial, especially if I enhance the submission or make changes based on feedback.

The fundamental thing (in an LPS) is that an invention is often *not* rejected because it is not a good idea - it may be rejected because it is not a good invention/product *for that sponsor* - either they already have something in development or it just doesn't fit in their product line (or whatever).

Sometimes, EN has even opted my submission into the open search for me - presumably because EN likes the idea even if a particular search sponsor doesn't.

I can't recall specific cases, but anecdotally I recall there have been multiple cases of resubmitted R8's or even R4's that ended up making it all the way, sometimes after many, many red X's.

Patric J
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crystaldiane's Avatar

Roger, Sarah, I always appreciate that you guys take the HIGH GROUND.  Teaching people what YOU all know is HARD HARD HARD HARD Work.  But there are a number of us that Really appreciate what you are trying to do here to help all of us. Please keep the dialogs going. 

Patric J
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jdowney9000's Avatargold

Well, Jimminy!

Patric J
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magurn's Avataren_staff_badge

Hi guys!

Another quick note on our feedback process. 

As the Community Manager I have seen the evolution of feedback since my early days at EN. As Chappy outlined, in the beginning, it was to those who were presented but ultimately not chosen from an innovation search, then we introduced our feedback process for Insiders who were declined. 

Now, Edison Nation provides feedback not only to those Insiders who are declined within a search at the time of their decline, but also to Insiders who have ideas that are actively being pitched out to companies. That is "ongoing feedback" and is provided directly to the EN Dashboard. Do these updates happen daily, weekly, even monthly? Unfortunately no. But, my promise to all has always been that when we have information, interest and feedback from companies, positive or negative, we're going to share it with you. 

As Roger pointed out, feedback draws a fine line. We want to share some examples and/or reasoning as to why a product did not move forward, but we cannot say, "here's what to do to help, here's how to modify your idea for success." Our goal is to educate you to improve your idea(s) and decide the next best course of action.

As always, you are welcome, as Robert added earlier, to update your submission based on feedback you received either to clarify, or make changes. As Insiders, you can do this and opt an idea into another innovation search for additional consideration. And, as Roger pointed out, please be sure before you opt an idea in that your idea fits the criteria outlined for that search.

Okay, so maybe that wasn't so quick of a response...

I thank you all for your feedback and thoughts, as always. This is not an easy process and it is never easy on our end to decline ideas. 

I wish you all a good start to the week!

Michelle

Derrick James
Thom C
Patric J
Robert Pontius
Robert Pontius
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magurn's Avataren_staff_badge

Hi Sarah!

No worries at all. I completely appreciate any antsyness! I understand how these things go and believe me, I'd love nothing more than communicate to everyone about ideas everyday...ah the promise of human cloning...

:)

Patric J
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tesladog's Avatargold

Great discussion folks!

Roger, great stuff as always, you've usually got your finger right on the pulse of it. I feel your pain when you see people pay the price for not doing due diligence. As a designer, I know what it's like when you're trying your best to help folks who won't allow you to. You end up being Jerry Maguire - "Help me, Help YOU!"

Michelle, you're saint. There, I said it. I'm sure much of your day is composed of facepalms, but you've always got an encouraging word for everyone. Thanks for all your good work :)

Robert, Sarah, always good insights from both of you - thanks for taking the time!


EN does a bang-up job all around, so please don't think I'm complaining about anything. More like I 'm just noodling around out loud, and allowing others to hear the process. You never know what idea might float to the surface as a result of the discussion - I view the forums largely as a collective think tank for everyone here, including the EN team. Irritation produces pearls or gets swatted like flies, but it also produces the flyswatter, so overall that's a good thing, ain't it?

Mary Gorman
Kim L
Robert Pontius
Rob F
Michelle Sartori
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bobf's Avatargold

What about an anonymous suggestion link where members can suggest and or vent?

No need for EN to reply and it may keep some of the frustrated members from venting on the forums and on other sites.

My friends company had a employee suggestion link that was not anonymous and all they received was mostly praise and not many suggestions. After changing to anonymous, they received five times as many suggestions/vents and my friend felt much better after venting her pent up frustrations. She also felt her suggestions contributed to the health of their company.  

Patric J
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magurn's Avataren_staff_badge

Thank you for the suggestion Rob! It is definitely something the team will consider further.

Rob F
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rpontius's Avatarg8_badge

Sarah:

So now you've truly been initiated! I've lost count of how many R4's I've collected, but I know that I learned from each one.

Is this a "tweak and resubmit" situation for you?

Patric J
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rpontius's Avatarg8_badge

Sarah - that's a really enlightened approach. It's so hard for many of us to let our beloved ideas go and move on to new ones. Who knows, if you back-burner it, an LPS may one day come along with a sponsor company that is looking for exactly that kind of thing, in which case it can make sense to think hard about how to further differentiate the product and then resubmit for free.

Patric J
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thom33's Avatargold

Hey Sarah!

Just wanted to say, you and i have the same strengths as innovators, I've had a dozen G7/R8's and for the most part do not have prototypes. So i guess I'm saying EN does a good job in their eval. process envisioning your concepts potential...

99% of my submissions are one entry per search (budget issues), so... you can focus on that one great idea and ride it out looking for that golden ticket!

Keep on keep'n on!

T.

Patric J
Michelle Sartori
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rpontius's Avatarg8_badge

It should be said too that just because you have a prototype and can *show* that a concept works like magic that's no guarantee of anything.

A recent submission I made to ASOTV is based on a scientific principle and does indeed work like magic. I have a "kluge" working model made of found and 3D-printed components and showed a video of it in action.

However, the idea was rejected at ASOTV Stage One for not being enough of a mass-market item. I thought that because the item had some "wow" factor, was demonstrable and catered to what I think is a large market that it had a chance, but alas my idea of "mass market" and the requirements of ASOTV didn't match up. I tweaked the idea in response to feedback and re-submitted to the open search.

Point is, an illustrated or even just text submission might have made it in the ASOTV search *if it hit all the right buttons* while my submission didn't get any traction despite having a working prototype. Maybe I need to add some more market analysis or maybe my invention is like Opus' famous "Turnip Twaddler" - "works" but not really something people will want to buy, at least not en masse.

Patric J
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rpontius's Avatarg8_badge

For the benefit of anyone who is too young or just plain missed the golden age of Bloom County:

BearPaw
Kim L
Patric J
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rpontius's Avatarg8_badge

Darn - looks like I'll have to hold off submitting my "Bug Snuggler" invention!

Jacob Downey
Patric J
Karen C Adams
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rpontius's Avatarg8_badge

Keyword with respect to cleaning, having a flatter stomach and fixing stuff: "aspire"

Patric J
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rpontius's Avatarg8_badge

I was certain “bug wearing” could become a thing, hence the "Bug Snuggler" aka:

BUGGYBJÖRN, Ergo Bug, The Buggler

Now that this is prior art, feel free - anyone - to run with this idea.

Patric J
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rpontius's Avatarg8_badge

Erin - you could include a little vial of bed bugs with the pajamas for those who don't already have buggy friends...

Or supply the bugs already wearing their outfits - "American Girl" better look out!

Patric J
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williamj's Avatargold

erin, speaking of rocks...

I grew up in the 60's and let me tell you "I" have rocked !!! Yes ma'am, I have rocked and I have been rocked.. and back then they used real rocks. Ooooch..... ouchhhh....

Patric J
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karenadams's Avatar

The Rock on a rock is hilarious and I do love the idea and can actually see it going over quite well for many.

Mmmm but the best part of a man's body is his mind. Show me some of that nice overly wrinkled brain and now we're talkin' HOT.

I'm old now but but have always been this way. 

Patric J
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tesladog's Avatargold

Funny stuff, y'all! Still miss Bloom County.

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karenadams's Avatar

Erin hope you hear back and soon! It is wonderful what you do for St. Judes.

I made the mistake of asking my Sweetie what he was doing one day. His response, "Writing code."

To which I could only reply," Mmmm baby that's sexy." had no idea after 14 years that he could do that too.

Patric J
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tesladog's Avatargold

Karen, your avatar reminds me of one of my more entertaining inventions that I'm planning to submit soon - maybe one day you'll see it in stores ;)

Erin, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Dwayne gets back to you - he's that kinda guy :)

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rpontius's Avatarg8_badge

Erin - way to take the initiative! You never know - this would make for a great "story". If it all works out, part of the story could be about how we were all just kidding around on the Edison Nation forums when you said to yourself: "you know what, why don't I just shoot Dwayne's manager an email?".

Karen C Adams
Patric J
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rpontius's Avatarg8_badge

I'll ask my sister-in-law if she has any connections with Dwayne. She does special effects makeup for the movies and TV (Emmy nominated for "Temple Grandin") and knows/has connections with people like Danny Trejo and Pierce Brosnan.

Patric J
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tesladog's Avatargold

Erin, Tim Ferriss has written about how to reach just about anyone via email - you'd probably enjoy most of his writing, if you've never read it. Check out The 4 Hour Workweek and all his other fantastic books. Oh and the good news is there was never any patent on the pet rock - just a trademark :) I don't think it's possible to patent a rock, though I'm sure it's been attempted. It's all about the pitch: Paleolithic, Roughly Spherical Flingable Anti-Intruder Device, for instance...


Robert, can your Sis hook me up for an acting gig? lol Just kiddn around...but seriously. :D

Robert Pontius
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rpontius's Avatarg8_badge

Sure Patric - but you'd probably end up as "Zombie #9" and have to fake your own decapitation - ha, ha.

http://hawgfly.com/

Love Tim Ferriss!

Patric J
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tesladog's Avatargold

THE PET ROCK: A STORY OF INVENTION AND CREATIVITY

"Great inventions are more often than not improvements on tested designs. The plough, the wheel, the printing press, all evolved from their simple to their modern forms by the work of hundreds of inventors over centuries. Other great inventions–and their corresponding patents–seem to come out of nowhere; a bolt of lightning strikes the inventor and an unprecedented new idea enters the world. An idea like the Pet Rock.

Ad man Gary Dahl “invented” the Pet Rock in a bar in Los Gatos, California, in 1975. The Pet Rock was to be the ideal pet, requiring none of the maintenance of those “outdated” biological ones. The concept was tongue-in-cheek, of course, and hugely successful, if short-lived. A year after its initial appearance, the Pet Rock was an old fad, but that didn’t stop plenty of imitators trying to steal its thunder, from the copycat “Original Pet Rock” to Pet Rock Obedience Lessons. Dahl never patented or trademarked his idea, and in retrospect it seems he didn’t have to; the fad was over and done with by the time it would have taken to approve a patent application. Dahl made millions from one simple idea and clever, aggressive marketing.

Could an idea like Dahl’s be patented today?

Natural processes and products like mineral deposits and plants expressly cannot be patented. There is no way to patent a rock as a rock. As of a few years ago US patent law allows genetically modified organisms to be protected, although the Pet Rock wasn’t really one of those. If the Pet Rock were a new invention, it would have required a utility patent. Utility patents must meet three criteria to be approved: novelty, non-obviousness, and utility. In other words, it has to be a new idea, one that would not strike an expert in the field as obvious, and it must have some use. Although it may sound ridiculous, when it was first introduced the Pet Rock met these criteria: it was a new idea, it was hardly obvious to geologists or toymakers, and it had utility, i.e., it made people laugh. With a really good patent lawyer, Dahl might have been able to get a utility patent to protect the Pet Rock as a new invention. The easier route would have been to trademark a design, etch it onto the rock, and to acquire a design patent on rocks etched with that trademark or logo.

Dahl’s story continues to inspire innovators with its simplicity, brilliance, and success, and raises questions about patents and the nature of invention. Could one, for example, patent custom cacti as home-security systems, banana peels as anti-personnel weapons, or trained song-birds as alarm clocks?"

- Source Unknown

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tesladog's Avatargold

Robert, I could totally be down with Zombie #47, if it came to that lol I love movies :)

Robert Pontius
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rpontius's Avatarg8_badge

Patric - you'd probably have to fly out to Austin, TX - it's likely that you'd lose money on the gig...

Check out Meredith's list of movies on her website résumé (http://hawgfly.com/PDF/meredithresume.pdf) - my cinephile friends are most impressed by Sin City and most of all that she worked with Terrence Malick. I believe she just finished working on season 1 of "The Son" with Pierce Brosnan.

Patric J
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tesladog's Avatargold

Good read, Sarah - Caveat Venditor ;)

Robert, I might do it anyway, just to cross off my bucket list lol

Robert Pontius
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karenadams's Avatar

Patric, my avatar is a piece of decadence and seemed fitting. I truly hope everyone has a sweet journey.

Now I am intrigued about the invention you will submit soon.

Patric J
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tesladog's Avatargold

Erin, you might just be surprised ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPtgsCylIw

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rpontius's Avatarg8_badge

Hey Erin - 

If you can't get "The Rock" maybe you can get one of the other rocks:

Patric J
Michelle Sartori
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